Optimizing Tezzeret

[EnialisLiadon]

What would it replace?  I'm running Ubg, but the only green card in my maindeck is Regrowth.  If I went to Ub, I'd replace it with Ponder.  Then I would have to find another card to cut for Relearn/Reconstruct, but as I'm not playing Fact or Fiction, I'd probably try to squeeze that in first.

It seems really list-dependent in how you want to spend your 60 slots.  I would probably not consider Reconstruction, as it seems really narrow in only working with Gifts.  Relearn is interesting and serves a similar role that Regrowth does, but I don't like the casting cost.

[Neonico]

I did play it over transmute artefact in my list, both serving the same purpose : optimizing gifts piles.
But transmute artefact is strictly better outside of the combo finish.

[Caron]

i was also thinking about -1 transmutation artifact and +1 relearn or reconstruct.. but i guess neonico is right... transm.. comes to be more useful both early and late game.. while the other two could be usless in early game...

...mmm...

But i still ilke relearn...

CARONDIMONIO

[Neonico]

It's allways good to get Ancestral Recall, a Thirst, or even a mana drain or a force of will back in the early/midgame.
But it's really too situationnal to be good.

[Caron]

..yes.. i've tryed.. u r right...
next step.. i'd like to try timetwister in my ub tezzeret... it could be strong 1st turn permanent advantage.. strong mid-game drawing chance.. and maybe an end game i win button...
i think timetwister is a great card.. but very difficoult to play... at the right moment is fantastic.. in the wrong situation can give advantage to your opponent.. mm...
instead of 3 duress 1 thought size.. i could try 2 duresse 1 thougtseize and this timetwiaster...
this way i'll play time walk-timetwister-time vault the 3 clessidra cards in one deck... mmm...
CARONDIMONIO

[Phele]

I also think, that Timetwister is an underrated card. Imo it could be a good addition to the actual control-combo builds. As you said, it can be great card advantage in the first two turns with all this accelaration played in these builds, it is a very good reset button and topdeck in the midgame and there is a high chance to win on the spot when you play it in the lategame. AND: For these kinds of decks, Timetwister is a bomb against one of your most difficult matchups - Ichorid. It does excatly, what you want against Dredge. It steps them back and buys you time and it brings you much closer to your own combo win. I do play Twister with good results so far in my actual UW Vault-Key build and would love to hear about results from other players.

[jamestosetti]

You could cunning wish to an extirpate. I think it would be a much safer play and you would have access to more spells. I think vampiric tutor has the timetwister spot covered though.

[Grand Inquisitor]

Timetwister

Seriously, no.  The current Tezzeret lists are not about big swing card advantage or critical mass nearly as much as they are about synergy between parts and incremental advantage.  Dumping two moxes or w/e and twistering early game doesn't get you much.  Having to wait for mid-late game to use it means you're probably in a losing position.  It's a cute trick against ichorid, but without serious bombs (outside tinker/will) or tendrils as a kill, this card simply doesn't have enough focus.

Relearn

Sometimes 'it pitches' just isn't enough of an argument.  Regrowth is barely good enough, this card is strictly outside the power level of the deck.

[LordHomerCat]

Relearn

Sometimes 'it pitches' just isn't enough of an argument.  Regrowth is barely good enough, this card is strictly outside the power level of the deck.

I don't agree with you about much with regards to this deck, but that comment is 100% on the money.  Regrowth is the worst card in my lists, no way do I want another, even less powerful version.

[zeus-online]

I've actually liked regrowth quite a bit, but often i've regrowthed tolarian academy, lotus etc. so relearn deffinetly wouldn't make the cut.

I think Tezzeret himself is the weakest card in my list. I've seriously considered cutting him.

/Zeus

[jamestosetti]

       I think anyone who just starts playing tezzeret thinks tezzeret is a garbage card. After a while you realize hey I can pitch him to force and still win. Then after a while longer you see that you are really setting up your artifacts or mana drains to put him into play. You will also see you will like to play with two for the sole purpose of pitching one of them. Tezzeret is actually the only reason the archetype is successfull so I would call him the best card in the deck.

[Caron]

...mmm...
i agree with zeus.. with 2 voltaic, 2 transmute artifact etc... it's much more likely not to win because of tezzeret...
 in my opinion tezzert is a card that you don't want to see in your deck more than once...
the fact that you can pitch it... like someone else said before in this thread, is not a fact..
2 tezzeret are too much for me...
tezzeret is good ok.. but not essential in 2 copies.. one is more than enough..

CARONDIMONIO

[reaperbong]

I've been running 3 Tez lately and it rocks.

A higher ratio of 1st-2nd turn Tez drops = more wins for me fo sho. I like to drop them stupid early not caring if opponents have counterspells or not, later on I'll just cast another one if it fails. More times then not i'll have counterspell back-up or opponent is lacking and so it's an auto-win.

I cut Transmute Artifact as it kinda does the same function as Trinket Mage but worse as it's not a beat stick/1 turn blocker for Tez, Tez or a Tutor can get the Time Vault so that's covered.

Tez for Pres!

[Caron]

..mmm.. i find transmute artifact much more useful than trinket mage
becuause it's faster and you put what you need directly into play, so if you hit a counter you loose trans (and the sacrificed artifact) but you don't loose the combo piece.. (i don't play regrowth so that's good in my game plan).
 .. actually i play 2 copies of transmute art. (and 2 voltaic keys)  in my deck and i find them very useful in many situations.. they can get me combo parts, or top etc.
i also like trinket very much but i think if you want to play UB tezz in a very fast-combo way transmute art. is more appropriate....
i've found trinket much more useful if you want to play the deck in a more controllish way, with more tools etc...

i think that the different versions of this deck mainly reflect the plan each player want to accomplish... more control, more fast combo win, more different winning conditions, more tezzeret so you can just keep on trying casting it, more answers to fish-artifacts-etc. etc.

and so wether to splash or not green or red, and the approach efficiency of your strategy will be succesful of course if you have the luck, or the experience, to fit the metagame you find...
I still have not found a card or a set of cards that can really have an effective weight on the whole strategy of the deck, which is still i think one of the best without being too difficoult to play.
I find Tezz much easier to play compared to drain tendrils or TPS... of course because maybe i'm still not enough skilled...

..this is only my point of view after being testing this deck for three months..
CARONDIMONIO

[LordHomerCat]

I find Tezz much easier to play compared to drain tendrils or TPS... of course because maybe i'm still not enough skilled...

..this is only my point of view after being testing this deck for three months..
CARONDIMONIO

Could not agree more.  Maybe it's because I've been playing mostly drain decks since the restrictions, but I was able to pick up Tezz and immediately play it comfortably, and the plays are mostly obvious to me.  Compared to TPS, Tezz is a miles easier to play.

[Nerzhul]

Has someone ever tried Imperial Seal instead of Trinket Mage or Transmute Artifact?
I mean it s may be a little bit slow but you can search everything and can get the card with Top(i play 2 tops instead of 1 top and 1 ponder).

[jamestosetti]

I agree with tezzeret being a very smooth deck to pilot. The only reason I don't play it is because everyone else plays it and if I were in a big tournament I'm sure there would be people who would put up a better finish.

[M.Solymossy]

Has someone ever tried Imperial Seal instead of Trinket Mage or Transmute Artifact?
I mean it s may be a little bit slow but you can search everything and can get the card with Top(i play 2 tops instead of 1 top and 1 ponder).

Fabricate would be better.

[brazil]

Has someone ever tried Imperial Seal instead of Trinket Mage or Transmute Artifact?
I mean it s may be a little bit slow but you can search everything and can get the card with Top(i play 2 tops instead of 1 top and 1 ponder).

I play Imperial Seal in my UB Tezz and I like it just fine. I have yet to try Transmute Artifact though. Trinket Mage would not fit my gameplan too well. I usually combo out with a Tinker + Inkwell Leviathan or Time Vault infinite turn no later than turn 3.

[LordHomerCat]

Has someone ever tried Imperial Seal instead of Trinket Mage or Transmute Artifact?
I mean it s may be a little bit slow but you can search everything and can get the card with Top(i play 2 tops instead of 1 top and 1 ponder).

Fabricate would be better.

I disagree.

The problem with Seal is that it's card disadvantage.  It's only good when it's getting ancestral or you are already winning, and you have plenty of cards that are good when you are winning.  I was thinking about Seal recently, and I might give it a shot, but its unlikely to be better than what I already have (which includes neither Fabricate or Trinket Mage).

[brazil]

I disagree.

The problem with Seal is that it's card disadvantage.  It's only good when it's getting ancestral or you are already winning, and you have plenty of cards that are good when you are winning.  I was thinking about Seal recently, and I might give it a shot, but its unlikely to be better than what I already have (which includes neither Fabricate or Trinket Mage).

Would you be so kind as to enlighten us as to what you already have then?
Imperial Seal is for card quality, not advantage. It says "Win the game next turn."

[LordHomerCat]

I disagree.

The problem with Seal is that it's card disadvantage.  It's only good when it's getting ancestral or you are already winning, and you have plenty of cards that are good when you are winning.  I was thinking about Seal recently, and I might give it a shot, but its unlikely to be better than what I already have (which includes neither Fabricate or Trinket Mage).

Would you be so kind as to enlighten us as to what you already have then?
Imperial Seal is for card quality, not advantage. It says "Win the game next turn."

I don't have the list typed but its the same one I've been playing for months.  Check some of the Milwaukee area results threads >1 month old.  The whole 'win the game next turn' thing is fine and all but again, its only win the game when you are already ahead.  If you're behind, then it either says "do nothing and avoid casting this card" or "skip your next turn: still do nothing".  I would rather a card which can help me get back into it, not cost me 2 cards to still be losing.  In combo I like these cards a lot more, in Drain decks card disadvantage tutors have not been good for me for a long time.

[OwenTheEnchanter]

For the record Trinket Mage has been consistently awesome for me as a 1-of in tez, I will probably be adding a second.

[LSV]

Yeah, I also played one and it was pretty sweet. It's funny how relevant a 2/2 guy can be, the Mage always ends up pretty useful.

[reaperbong]

I think Trinket Mage gives a huge boost to the Tezzeret-heavy build, there's so much great synergy between the Mage and Tez.

He either sets up the combo without having to pass the turn by getting your Voltaic Key or he becomes a chump blocker to protect Tez allowing the combo-win. Also he's fantastic for sideboard cards like Tormod's Crypt and Pithing Needle as you can side in less allowing you to keep more from the main build.

Overall he saves space in your maindeck, with Trinket Mage you should not need to run multiple Keys or Tops IMO. He's awesome with Tinker and Transmute Artifact too if you don't have any Moxen/artifact mana in play to sac. Hell he's even the game-winning beatstick once Key-Vault is in place.

I keep 2 in the maindeck for sure.

[Rubik_3x3x3]

I'll definitely be testing a Trinket Mage and a second Tezzeret. I think that jamestosetti got it right that Tezzeret goes underappreciated until you realize that he is capable of just winning left unchecked for a single turn. And, at worst, he's a 5-mana Tinker of sorts, and Regrowth -> Tinker is rarely a bad play so a 5-mana Tinker seems fine. Espeically when he can also replace the Key by himself. Two Tezz plus the Mage seems like it could make the deck get through some of those slumps that, no matter how many times you Thirst or FoF, you just can't find any real action cards.

EDIT: The Trinket Mage made me forget why I came to this thread. Goblin Welder? Any good? I was considering Control Slaver earlier and realized that Slaving isn't as good as Vault+Key/Tezz. I wanted to maximize Thirst for Knowledge, and it seems like Welder could easily grab a combo piece out of the 'yard. A deck running a Trinket Mage or 2 Key could easily find the combo pieces and use Thirst more effectively than simply as a draw spell. Plus, Welder can potentially improve the Stax/MUD match up and occasionally block a creature to buy a turn against aggro.

[Blovdek]

Hi guys,

My question to all experiended Tezz players arround here is why some of the versions run so few lands for a controll/mana drain based decks. I precieve Tezzeret to be a control deck, which wins mostly on well timed mana drains and card advantage... Ive seen tezz decks with 15 lands winning tournaments, packing library and tolairan academy as lands. I also noticed, that most of my losses camed from being mana shy, as a resould of wastelands/spheres/nullrods. Here is my very stable and tight version of my Tezz list, please tell me what do you think. In my sideboard i just run best anti creatures cards avaliable in combination with mana drain, that is sower of temptation.

UB Stable Tezz

Creatures 2
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Inkwell Leviathan

Artifacts 12
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
1 Sensei Divining Top

Sorcerys 8
1 Ponder
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoths Will
2 Thoughtseize

Instants 21
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
1 Echoing Truth
1 Rebuild
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor

Lands 17
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
4 Island
4 Underground Sea

60

Sideboard 15
2 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Yixlid Yailer
3 Duress
4 Sower of Temptation
2 Hurkyls Recall

[Isaac85]

There's a couple things about your list that don't make since to me. First your playing 26 mans sources. Even though you mentioned wastes effects and other reasons why you think the extra lands are better its been proven without doubt that 23 to 25 is a good number of sources. Also why 2 thought seizes. 2 just makes little since to me because you have little chance of drawling them and is the life loss worth it. I don't know about your meta but duress always gets me there. I'd put in thee duress effects and 1 thought seize.

[Blovdek]

Well the thing for me is that playing with 4x ManaDrains against certain archtypes (workshop, stax) i usually dont want to fetch the underground sea out, as i want my Drains online on the 2nd turn. For the thoughtseize and the lost of life i have to dissagree. If u can hit one of your biggest enemys like Welder an Bob, Magus or even Goyg, the life loss wont matter and the storm is not as popullar as it was. And the loss of life just doesent come in play when i am only running 2 of them. As for the lands go i might go to 16, but i cant understand people who run 15, which is insane for a mana drain deck for me... I mean we all know that mana drain decks become huge favourites after few turns if they astablish some sort of control. My logic tells me that being consistent and playing first of your 2 lands that are unwastable will win you games, you would have probably lost otherwise... And after all control decks win with card advantage and running 1 or 2 more lands for consistency and being able to not take mulligans vs other Drain decks and bluff Drains and Forces makes it an even stronger reasoning.

blovdek

[kalisia]

I do play Twister with good results so far in my actual UW Vault-Key build and would love to hear about results from other players.

I won today a tourney with Timetwister maindeck and all I've to say is that it's HUGE.
Feeling that there would have several Ichorids, I swaped at last moment Fact or Fiction in sideboard to enter Twister.
Well, I don't play exactly Tezz, but a similar Drain deck and , as you were saying, the card does exactly what we want : buy turns against Ichorid. Because even if you put 6 or 8 cards in sideboard against this deck, if you open with a correct opening hand (I mean with drawers like TFK, moxes, etc...) but without any hate card, you are in a very bad situation. Even if you have a tutor, tutoring for needle or tormod's Crypt is something too late on turn 2. Twister is a great Reset button and in a deck with a combo so easy to establish (key + vault), it's always broken to draw seven new cards AND reset opponent's graveyard. Moreover, Twister is so esily tutored (DemoTU, VampTU, MystTU)!!
A last point, in my list, I play Misdirections and not Duresses/Toughtseizes, so having 6 pitch counters is a good way to optimize Twister (trashing it) if , at one moment, it has no utility in your hand.