[Article] Lets talk about TPS shall we.

[Marske]

If they have 1 mox they have drain mana up at turn 1 (sapphire) or turn 2 (other mox). If they chain the first remora into a second one (not a rare situation) it gets worse.

They will have to hit a blue source and an artifact source to keep Remora alive and drain mana up. They can't keep doing this indefinitely, sure it's not rare, just like TPS hitting a second Dark ritual isn't rare.. thats why you play 4. But if you play turn 1 Land, Mox, Remora and TPS opens with turn 1 land, Ritual, Negator you're in for a hell of a ride. From that point on you'll have to focus on getting the negator out of the way or winning before he kills you. This means keeping Remora in play is not one of your top priority's giving openings for other lines of play from the TPS player.

@Stormanimagus,
The list you're proposing and sideboard plan is nearly identical to the list I suggested, some spots are up for tweaking imo as I mentioned before in this thread.

The thing I was trying to illustrate with my debate on "TPS Shell" early on was simply that TPS decks often ARE and should be homogenous. The structure of the deck and the tweaking is not really what makes it so good. It's the pilot. It's the pilot's intuition with the deck and ability to find the right solution for the problem presented.

Exactly what I've been saying, you have the better strategy for beating drain decks and should be able to find a way to implement that strategy.

*Fishies (UW variants) -->                            -1 Rebuild, -1 Mind's Desire (depending on whether they use Stifle, but I'm not sure here)
                                                              +2 Chain Of Vapor

As you can see I've suggested about the same boarding plan you did some cards may differ but thats not really a bad thing. The only match up I think you're attacking wrong is Fish. They have the same mana denial strategy Staxx has (staxx uses waste / strip spheres and fish uses waste / strip Null rod / stifle) so bringing extra basics to counteract this is probably a better strategy.

Edit:

Aight, this may not be the optimal way to sideboard but it is the best way I can think of for now. Thoughts on how to improve the decklist or boarding plan? Please back up your argument with well thought out points. I don't want this threat to degenerate into a "he said, she said" train of stupidity. TPS deserves better discussion than that. If Vintage players want to see a more diverse metagame they need to get off their asses and start learning this deck. It is playable, but takes a higher skill level than other decks. The rewards of piloting TPS well are very well worth it though. The deck is a well oiled machine that has ways of dealing with ANY deck. You just need to know the lines of play that lead to victory. Hopefully future cards/unrestrictions will also give this deck new (or old in the case of unrestrictions) toys to play with. Until that time I think I have a sort of "composite" list that should cover just about everything the deck may want to cover.

I forgot this in my initial reply, I couldn't have said it better myself and I'm really happy this thread has already seen some very good points and discussion going on. I started this thread because the "TPS players" thread was horribly degenerating. Not that it was very good to begin with... TPS really deserves a bit more attention.

[Bill Copes]

I just started playing TPS about 3 weeks ago.  I've been a workshop player for at least 3 years prior to this, so I'm completely new to the deck from the perspective of playing with it, as opposed to against it.  What I'm about to ask is probably dumb as hell.

If the problem of beating Remora is the fact of your opponent drawing umpteen pitch counters and commandeers, then why aren't cards like Xanatid Swarm and Defense Grid good enough answers?  Both cards stop them from casting spells on your turn and should allow you plenty of room to push through and win.  Granted, Defense Grid is a double edged sword, in that it could probably backfire on you in some instances, like you not being able to counter their bomb on their turn.

[Marske]

@AbdullahTheButcher,
To answer your question, those cards are pretty ok, Swarm being probably the best of the 2 options you mentioned.  The biggest problem is it basically weakens your board against other match ups which are way harder then Drain decks (Staxx, Ichorid) It's a choice you would have to make. I for one think TPS has the tools to beat Drains and Drain decks featuring Remora (not talking about Shaymora here which is a completely different type of deck imo) I don't dismiss the idea that Swarms should be in the board, I'm only saying they shouldn't be if you expect to run into a couple of Staxx / Ichorid decks. If your meta has a little of those and more drain decks and a total lack of fish then Swarm obviously becomes the better sideboarding option.

TPS is highly adjustable and everybody in this thread is talking about the board plan they think is correct for their meta which may differ from state to state, city to city or in some cases country to country. Although valid as they may be it's not getting us anywhere until we find some sort of consensus about which meta would deserve which board plan. I would rather see some input about boarding plans dedicated to certain meta-games. I think the boarding plan already mentioned in this thread by myself and Stormanimagus features a side boarding strategy fit for a "I have no clue what the meta is so I board against my worst match ups" type of board.

Like I said in my initial post, I think the sideboard must be evaluated each and every time you're going to play in a event because you might run into something completely different every time which may warrant a shift in focus from your board.

[Gekoratel]

*Shops with Spheres + Chalice -->                -1 Chain Of Vapor, -1 Imperial Seal, -1 Misdirection, -2 Duress (when on the draw otherwise: -1 Grim Tutor, and -1 Duress)
                                                             +2 Island, +1 Swamp , +2 Hurkyl's Recall

I don't agree with what you’re boarding out against shops, personally I feel that Chain of Vapor is a very strong card against Shops.  Bouncing a Smokestack that is getting ramped of an artifact that is about to get Welded are solid plays.  The main goal is to just hit Basic land drops all day long and eventually Mass Bounce them out of the game and Chain of Vapor helps with this goal and can also let you get easy wins if you have an explosive draw that can win by bouncing a single piece of disruption.  I board out Mind's Desire and Fact or Fiction against Shops because they are so top heavy, I prefer to have a lower curve against a deck that aggressively attacking my mana.  Also against 9sphere Shop you want to play your Moxes to setup EOT Hurks which makes Desire lose value and you often won't be able to even cast FoF through their disruption.  I leave in Gifts because its a game winning bomb that I wouldn't be upset casting for 6 mana.  I also think Duress is poor in this matchup and often board out more than 2 depending on how many cards I plan to bring in.

[Bill Copes]

Here's the configuration I'm running.  Most people will probably scoff at the fact that it's 61 cards, which I know is a sign of poor deck building.  I run 61 as a personal preference and have honestly never had a problem because of this.

I haven't tried out Grim Tutor yet (I need to proxy 1-2), so I honestly have no idea whether or not it would make a difference on how the deck runs.  You're probably just forced to run a slightly different avenue.

I'm running 2 copies of tendrils so that it is easier to find off draw 7's (splashing red for Wheel of Fortune), or so you can mini-tendrils twice.  This scenario has come up a few times.

I've only taken this deck to 2 tournaments (Top 4'd one of them) and 1 play testing session so far, so I'm still very inexperienced with the deck.  I probably rely on draw 7's more than you're supposed to.

Has anyone been tempted to cut the Robot from the deck?  I think I've won a total one game with Colossus thus far.  Otherwise, he's stuck in my hand, or shuffled back in when i Necro -> discard.

I play in New England, which has a surprisingly varied meta.  You mainly see Tezz decks, but there are plenty of other archetypes to deal with on a random basis -- anything from Oath, Shops, BUG fish, UWG Fish, Ichorid, Belcher, Painter, Saymora, Goblins, so on and so forth.

I tried to construct the sideboard to cover a broad spectrum of decks, with varied answers to each deck type.  I have trouble remembering what I take out for certain matches, but I'll try my best to break it down, based on what I've played against so far:


Ichorid   In:  2 Jailer, 1 Tormod's, 1 Explosives  Out:  4 Duress

Fish:   In:  1 Swamp, 1 Island,  2 Chain of Vapor, 1 Empty the Warrens
   Out:  1 Rebuild, 1 Mox Pearl, 1 Mox Emerald, 1 Sensei's Top, 1 Wheel of Fortune

Stax:   In: 1 Swamp, 1 Island, 2 Hurkyll's Recall, 1 Engineered Explosives, 1-2 Chain of Vapor
   Out:  4 Duress, 1-2 Cabal Ritual, 1-2 Off Color Moxen

Tezz (With and w/o Remora):
   In: 2 Reb, 2 Chain of Vapor, 1 Volcanic, 1 Empty the Warrens
   Out: 1 Island, 1 Timetwister, 1 Wheel of Fortune, 1 Rebuild, 1 Time Walk, 1 ????
   
Painter:  Basically the same as tez, except I bring in Explosives, too

The Mirror:  I've brought in 2 Rebs

That's all of the decks I've had the pleasure / displeasure to play against so far.  I still need to do a ton of testing and play in more tournaments to have a better feel for the deck -- especially post-board.

I'm not sure this posts furthers the discussion along or not, but if anything, I'd like for people in the know to tell me if I'm doing something right or wrong with my choices.

Here's my current list:

1x Tinker
1x Darksteel Colossus
1x Yawgmoth's Will
4x Force of Will
4x Duress
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Merchant Scroll
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Timetwister
1x Imperial Seal
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Chain of Vapor
1x Time Walk
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Ponder
1x Brainstorm
1x Rebuild
1x Necropotence
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Tendrils of Agony
1x Yawgmoth's Bargain
1x Memory Jar
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Mind's Desire
1x Gifts Ungiven
4x Polluted Delta
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Badlands
3x Underground Sea
1x Swamp
1x Island
1x Tolarian Academy
4x Dark Ritual
2x Cabal Ritual
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mana Crypt
1x Sol Ring
1x Mox Jet
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Pearl
1x Lotus Petal
1x Mana Vault
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Sapphire

Sideboard
2x Yixlid Jailer
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Red Elemental Blast
1x Massacre
1x Empty the Warrens
2x Hurkyl's Recall
2x Chain of Vapor
1x Volcanic Island
1x Swamp
1x Snow-Covered Island

[Grand Inquisitor]

Ichorid   In:  2 Jailer, 1 Tormod's, 1 Explosives  Out:  4 Duress

This seems insufficient, although I guess it really depends on the meta.  Also, don't warrens tolkens kill bridge from below?  That could be a good stall, dropping 4-6 goblins to buy a few turns.

[Bill Copes]

This seems insufficient, although I guess it really depends on the meta.  Also, don't warrens tolkens kill bridge from below?  That could be a good stall, dropping 4-6 goblins to buy a few turns.

You're probably right -- I should have at least 1 more slot devoted to ichorid.  I haven't seen too many floating around as of late, which is probably just the calm before the storm.  You gotta love the ebb and flow of ichorid presence in the meta.   Warrens is a good idea -- I'll try bringing that in next time.

[Marske]

You're probably right -- I should have at least 1 more slot devoted to ichorid.  I haven't seen too many floating around as of late, which is probably just the calm before the storm.  You gotta love the ebb and flow of ichorid presence in the meta.   Warrens is a good idea -- I'll try bringing that in next time.

Having played with and against ichorid during tournaments and testing the latest build of that deck, I think goblin tokens (warrens) do next to nothing in stopping them. They will just create a bigger army, strip your hand (hypnotist) and attack when they have lethal damage on the board. Surprisingly not hard for them to do within 2 turns.

I always said having 8 ichorid sideboard cards was too much and settled for having 6 and the fact that we can still probably combo turn 3 before they kill us. These recent developments in Ichorid (Fatestitcher, Hypnotist) have made me up my ichorid hate to 8 sideboard cards. Underestimating this match up is a great mistake imo, sure you don't see much ichorid. But if it's present it's bound to make top 8 at which point you have a 25% of facing it. (If you make top 8 yourself obv). Having an autoloss during swiss isn't as bad as having an autoloss in the top 8.

Also I think bringing in REB's during the mirror is a mistake, only a few blue cards actually matter and it's a better idea to cut the opposing TPS player of from his best win condition (Yawg, Will) and then win by tighter play. I do like the Engineerd explosives from your board, but it seems to narrow in it's uses. Like I said during my initial article (steve has also mentioned this I'm sure) when playing TPS you don't really have to board in anything against random matches because your strategy will most likely trump theirs. We only care about Staxx, Ichorid and Fish because those matchups don't get trumped by storm.

"AbdullahTheButcher"Has anyone been tempted to cut the Robot from the deck?  I think I've won a total one game with Colossus thus far.  Otherwise, he's stuck in my hand, or shuffled back in when i Necro -> discard.

This seems like a real bad idea, sometimes it's just not possible to storm and having Tinker - Robot is huge against an opposing Arcane Lab for example. Even though going tinker - Robot is't the best way to deal with Fish or Staxx it can just plain win you games though.

ps. I think 2 tendrils isn't needed because you should sculpt you're one turn to win, we aren't like GWSx or ANT that needs mini-tendrils to keep itself alive, we don't need life to actually do anything. As long as you have 8 life you're still capable of winning which is something those 2 decks I mentioned don't normally think of as a ok position because any Confidant flip of Desire / Ant - Bob will probably kill them. We can still play Grim tutor- Will - Play 6 spells - Grim tutor - Tendrils with FoW backup or the ability to fetch. (which is also the kind of play why I like having Grim tutor in the deck)

[Bill Copes]

@marske:  Thank you for the input.  I'm going to adhere to your suggestions and alter my list accordingly.

My ichorid board will be:
3 Yixlid Jailer
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle

I've also cut the 2nd Tendrils, the badlands and all of the red cards.  I'll test things out later this week.

[Marske]

@marske:  Thank you for the input.  I'm going to adhere to your suggestions and alter my list accordingly.

My ichorid board will be:
3 Yixlid Jailer
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle

No problem , I've always liked having 2 needles because the card is so immensely versatile and almost never dead against other matches.

I've also cut the 2nd Tendrils, the badlands and all of the red cards.  I'll test things out later this week.

What did you add for those ?

[Bill Copes]

I'm going to try 2x Impulses to see if the additional filtering works, instead of Grim Tutor.  I'm not sure why, as I haven't played with it yet, but I just don't like that card for some reason.

Do you think it would make a significant difference if I switched to 4 Polluted Deltas, dropping 1 Underground Sea?

Here's my current build:

3 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
2 Swamp
2 Island
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Tolarian Academy

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Lotus Petal
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt

4 Dark Ritual
2 Cabal RItual

4 Force of Will
4 Duress

1 Memory Jar
1 TImetwister
1 Mind's Desire
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Fact of Fiction
1 Tinker

2 Impulse
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Timewalk

1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Merchant Scroll

1 Tendril's of Agony
1 Darksteel Colossus

1 Rebuild
1 Chain of Vapor

Sideboard:
3 Yixlid Jailer
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Chain of Vapor  (1 was previously an Engineered Explosives -- I could go back to this, as it can be an effective card against Fish, Stax and Ichorid)
2 Hurkyll's Recall
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Pithing Needle
1 Massacre

[Marske]

Do you think it would make a significant difference if I switched to 4 Polluted Deltas, dropping 1 Underground Sea?

I would drop the Mire before I would drop a sea if you really want to include a 4th Delta.

Grim Tutor

Grim Tutor is the most common tutor in the deck. Although it is included as a go-to Yawgmoth’s Will tutor, it will common be used to find Tendrils of Agony, Ancestral Recall, Black Lotus, and Necropotence. Grim Tutor will be used to find Tendrils of Agony when you are in the final steps of comboing out on the back of another card, such as Yawgmoth’s Bargain or Mind’s Desire or after the successful resolution of Yawgmoth’s Will.

Like I said before and don't get me wrong I'm  not trying to push you to play Grim Tutor. The card is way better then any other tutor (save for Demonic Tutor) when in the final steps of going combo. It can grab you're will reliably or your tendrils something which impulse just can't.

On a small note, your sideboard looks very solid.

[FlyFlySideOfFry]

I'm going to try 2x Impulses to see if the additional filtering works, instead of Grim Tutor.  I'm not sure why, as I haven't played with it yet, but I just don't like that card for some reason.

Do you think it would make a significant difference if I switched to 4 Polluted Deltas, dropping 1 Underground Sea?

Here's my current build:

3 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
2 Swamp
2 Island
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Tolarian Academy

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Lotus Petal
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt

4 Dark Ritual
2 Cabal RItual

4 Force of Will
4 Duress

1 Memory Jar
1 TImetwister
1 Mind's Desire
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Fact of Fiction
1 Tinker

2 Impulse
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Timewalk

1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Merchant Scroll

1 Tendril's of Agony
1 Darksteel Colossus

1 Rebuild
1 Chain of Vapor

Sideboard:
3 Yixlid Jailer
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Chain of Vapor  (1 was previously an Engineered Explosives -- I could go back to this, as it can be an effective card against Fish, Stax and Ichorid)
2 Hurkyll's Recall
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Pithing Needle
1 Massacre

When playtesting I strongly suggest that when you draw an Impulse think to yourself "would Grim Tutor or any other card have been a better inclusion?" Obviously in an actual tournament setting it isn't worth pulling your hair thinking about cards you didn't include so I would really recommend playtesting before coming to a conclusion about Grim Tutor. I used to think Grim was just a sorcery speed non-blue Intiution and it took only 2-dozen games to confirm that I was wrong using this method. Grim looks terrible on paper but it is often a clutch card.

[Bill Copes]

The card is way better then any other tutor (save for Demonic Tutor) when in the final steps of going combo. It can grab you're will reliably or your tendrils something which impulse just can't.

I used to think Grim was just a sorcery speed non-blue Intiution and it took only 2-dozen games to confirm that I was wrong using this method. Grim looks terrible on paper but it is often a clutch card.

These things are good to know and hear.  The next time I test, I'll try them out instead of the impulses.

[dragzz]

I'm new to the playing TPS, and I was wondering what you guys think about Dark Confidant MD. I have seen a couple of lists like this one
http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=38094.0, dropping bombs like Mind's Desire, Bargain, FoF and Gifts in favor of DC.

[Marske]

First of all welcome to TMD !!

Second of all, Dropping stuff like Minds desire, Gifts, FoF and most of all Bargain in favor of running DC severly cripples your flexibility and makes the deck play more straight forward. While you'll lose in flexibility (something I for one like about TPS) you gain card advantage and basically start running a whole new approach. I think Dark Confidant is a really good card in and by itself, but it's best at home in something like GWSx which is build to abuse him to the fullest.

So to recap:
TPS can't support him because of the high CMC spells you play making it easy to kill or disable yourself, cutting those cards would mean losing flexibility and changing your overall approach and straying away from TPS normal game plan.

[Aardshark]

Dimir Cutpurse.

I've been playing this in my TPS sb for several months to bring in against Tez and (especially) Shaymora piloted by very stong opponents (including LSV, & Web).  One big reason to chose this card is that it keeps your FOW count up (so you can sb out blue cards for it).

So far I'm 2:3 against this matchup -- not stellar but acceptable for a bad matchup against excellent opponents, and cutpurse definitely helps. Its also notworthy that in  my most recent match in the quarters against shaymora piloted by FOB (which I lost 1 game to 2), my cutpurse sowered through FOW -- I was surprised he even kept sowers in against me, since cutpurse was my only target. But FOB's good and it was the right call and won him the match. Still, that says something for the power of cutpurse.

[rilegard]

Has anyone splashed white to try Balance?
Do you consider it a "too much" defensive spell (for this deck) versus wheel of fortune or other typical inclusions?

(I have to say: I love Balance and I would include it in nearly every T1 deck)

[Marske]

@Aardshark,
Going 2:3 vs a "bad" matchup is not acceptable in my book. (3:3 would be). I understand what the Cutpurse could do for TPS and I'll give it a run during testing soon. I'm a bit skeptical about the mana requirements though. The card comes down turn 2 minimal with better odds for coming down turn 3 (because you can't ritual it into play).

Has anyone splashed white to try Balance?
Do you consider it a "too much" defensive spell (for this deck) versus wheel of fortune or other typical inclusions?

(I have to say: I love Balance and I would include it in nearly every T1 deck)

Like I said before, splashing any color with all the risks this brings should definitley be something you only should consider if it tips a bad matchup in your favor and you expect to play vs that deck more then decks running wastelands. if this isn't the case (such as with balance which is a great card but indeed to defensive and potentially devastating to your own board / hand) you should stay clear of it.

[Snarker]

I've been trying to add various cards instead of other cards for quite a while as a change to the 'standard' (The Menendian build) build, but I've discovered that the original build really is the most optimal this deck can currently be, without some sweeping changes.  Any small changes are mostly personal preference and don't change how the deck is played much (Grim tutor/Imperial Seal and Inkwell/DSC).  As many people have already stated, it really is the pilot of this deck that makes it incredible, the versatility of the engines allows it to be played well in many matchups.  After a few months, I think I finally have learned how to play this deck so I will be testing it at a local tournament next weekend.

[Mantis]

@Aardshark,
Going 2:3 vs a "bad" matchup is not acceptable in my book. (3:3 would be). I understand what the Cutpurse could do for TPS and I'll give it a run during testing soon. I'm a bit skeptical about the mana requirements though. The card comes down turn 2 minimal with better odds for coming down turn 3 (because you can't ritual it into play).

Going 2/3 vs LSV and Webster in a mediocre/bad matchup seems acceptable, those guys are professional Magic players. To be honest I actually think that is pretty impressive and nothing to be ashamed off. Also if you can go 2/3 in your worst MU that's fine, but too small of a sample to draw conclusions from.

Anyway, the one time I played TPS vs. Remora my strategy was just to get Tendrills in hand and try to resolve a ton of must counters this way you might get to storm 10 with your opponents help and finish it off. Obviously, the best way to win is stop the Remora from ever resolving, but that can fail.

[Marske]

@Mantis,
I didn't say it was something to be ashamed of, I just think that it says basically nothing because (again no offense) just sampling 5 games or even 5 matches (best 2 out of 3 so any number of games) doesn't really show you anything with these small amounts, you can't come to a conclusion with such small sample data. Sure LSV and Webster are some of the best players out there, so is Rich Shay (who I've tested against numerous times)  If you really want to prove the sideboard to be "good" fight trough 6 rounds of drain opponents in an event a few times with use of the board and top 8. LSV and Webster can have days off or can be just outplayed by something they didn't expect they're not super humans after all.

I've been trying to add various cards instead of other cards for quite a while as a change to the 'standard' (The Menendian build) build, but I've discovered that the original build really is the most optimal this deck can currently be, without some sweeping changes.  Any small changes are mostly personal preference and don't change how the deck is played much (Grim tutor/Imperial Seal and Inkwell/DSC).  As many people have already stated, it really is the pilot of this deck that makes it incredible, the versatility of the engines allows it to be played well in many matchups.  After a few months, I think I finally have learned how to play this deck so I will be testing it at a local tournament next weekend.

I'm very curious about how you did and what list you ended up running along with any stuff you noticed during play.

[dragzz]

Thanks for the input regarding DC marske. I'm still learning about the deck and I have personally tried placing in Dark Confidants. I have to say that I was a bit impressed, bob also provided a little flexibility, it allows you to cast a lethal tendrils with less spells and sometimes have inkwell swing for lethal in just 2 strikes. Also, there where times that I came a little short and bob provided the much needed CA for me to get back in the game and win. With that said, I would still agree that bob is not as strong in TPS, and I felt that it was more of a something that I would want to play when I'm still learning the deck, as it is not as resource intensive as the bombs it replaces and can be played after a flop, allowing you a chance to get back in the game.

Anyway I would like to ask, if you could only play with the 2 on-color moxen, what would you replace the other 3 with? I  play in a non-proxy environment and I only have a Saph and a Jet, personally I have replaced them with 1 swamp, 1 island and a tolarian academy. Would there be any cards in a typical TPS list that would be unplayable without the off-color moxen (ie. Bargain, Mind' Desire)?

I'm very curious about how you did and what list you ended up running along with any stuff you noticed during play.

Though this is not directed to me, I may have some things to share as a new TPS player. One thing that I have learned the hard way (losing in most of my matches in my last tournament) is that patience and timing is key in playing TPS. There has been a handful of times that I came a little bit short, because of either going off too early or timing my bombs incorrectly. There has also been times that I tried to resolve bombs without any form of protection (FOW or Duress) and ended up exhausting my hand then having my bombs countered, which is quite sad.

One thing I did test out was Key-Vault, with handful of tutors in the deck I figured that it can be supported. It did win me a couple of games when I had a one piece in hand, a protection, and a tutor, but aside from that it was a dead draw and and awful top-deck. I have removed it from my list.

[Aardshark]

@Aardshark,
Going 2:3 vs a "bad" matchup is not acceptable in my book. (3:3 would be). I understand what the Cutpurse could do for TPS and I'll give it a run during testing soon. I'm a bit skeptical about the mana requirements though. The card comes down turn 2 minimal with better odds for coming down turn 3 (because you can't ritual it into play).

Going 2/3 vs LSV and Webster in a mediocre/bad matchup seems acceptable, those guys are professional Magic players. To be honest I actually think that is pretty impressive and nothing to be ashamed off. Also if you can go 2/3 in your worst MU that's fine, but too small of a sample to draw conclusions from.

Anyway, the one time I played TPS vs. Remora my strategy was just to get Tendrills in hand and try to resolve a ton of must counters this way you might get to storm 10 with your opponents help and finish it off. Obviously, the best way to win is stop the Remora from ever resolving, but that can fail.

I should have been clear that neither of my wins were actually against LSV or Web piloting shaymora.  Cutpurse is an acceptable option if you want to have something v. control but don't want to distort your manabase.  I personally suspect xantid swarm is necessary to make shaymora favorable; which means if you expect both shops and remora to come out in force TPS may not be the right call.

[Marske]

@Aardshark,
Funny it did seem like you where claiming just that

Cutpurse is not an acceptable option in my opinion and I'll try to tell you why, it's 1UB which means you can't play it of a ritual, which makes it a turn 2 drop at best and a turn 3 drop at worst. At that point a turn 1 Negator would have almost sealed the deal or you could have already won if they don't lead with a early remora. It then just kicks for 2 while they discard a card and you draw one, sure this is good but they can easily still outdraw you (meditate for example) and just keep pitching excess lands.

I played in a tournament last weekend sporting TPS and I faced 2 Tezz decks sporting Remora + and 2 Drain decks without Remora but with Painter and I plowed trough the decks sporting Remora. I lost to Grim long just being faster (and me keeping bad hands) and overall me messing up and not realizing what was important during those matchups. Also my opponent having triple Arcane lab proved to be a bit too much. I've tried out some stuff during the event like switching my tinker target up from DSC to inkwell and I hated it all day long, I even lost a game due to having Inkwell instead of DSC so I'm not eager to try that out again. If you guys want I can post a more detailed tournament report if need be although I did poorly.

[zeus-online]

but they can easily still outdraw you (meditate for example)

I'm not sure how hot meditate really is with a dimir cutpurse on the other side of the table, +3 CA from meditate, -1 From their drawstep, -2  from one swing of the cutpurse,  equalling 0 CA and 2 less life.

[Marske]

I'm not sure how hot meditate really is with a dimir cutpurse on the other side of the table, +3 CA from meditate, -1 From their drawstep, -2  from one swing of the cutpurse,  equalling 0 CA and 2 less life.

Meditate isn't really hot in that matchup you're correct, but you haven't stripped anything when they play it. You're basically just doing 2 dmg a turn and nothing more you still have to deal with Remora. I would rather do 5 dmg a turn in that case starting from turn 2 instead of starting with doing 2 dmg a turn from turn 3. The basic problem I see in playing the Cutpurse is it's mana requirements, if it didn't need the extra colorless or was mono B it would have been a great dude. It's also pretty weak against other stuff as well, if you look at dudes like Negator he's good vs other stuff as well (certain staxx lists for example) If you really want discard I would run Hymn (which obv has it's drawbacks vs Remora) because with the cutpurse the player get's to choose which card is the worst in their hand and keep the bombs.

[zeus-online]

I agree that cutpurse isn't the optimal dude for the "man plan", just pointing out the flaw in your example

Both confidant and negator are better, aswell as tarmogoyf (although i'd probably never splash green just for a beater)

[Marske]

I agree that cutpurse isn't the optimal dude for the "man plan", just pointing out the flaw in your example

Agreed I could have provided a better example.

Both confidant and negator are better, aswell as tarmogoyf (although i'd probably never splash green just for a beater)

Confidant beats start a full turn earlier but it's also wicked if you flip dual FoW followed by Desire of it.  Any big black dude easily cast of ritual (Negator, Shade, etc) seems like a good dude for the man plan. I don't like the green splash one bit so you won't catch me doing that very soon. The biggest problem the man plan has is that it basically turns you into a "bad" beatdown deck which sucks in most matchups. I've also been testing out some other stuff like the amount of tutors and type of tutors because I noticed a huge surge in people playing Duress / Seize.

[Aardshark]

@Aardshark,
Funny it did seem like you where claiming just that

Sorry for the misrep. I've beat I've beat shaymora, and I've beat LSV & Web (with Tez I think). Just not at the same time.

I also don't see cutpurse as a card to race with; rather its something that will swing the attrition war in my favor if left unchecked. Contrary to your suggestion, I've never lost a game where cutpurse hit twice. More often than not it gets countered, which is fine since few cards in my deck draw out countermagic on their own. For this reason, I'm not even sure how often I'd want to play it off ritual even if I could, since (1) I'd be walking into card disadvantage when cutpurse is countered (or parity if fowed), as it usually is, and (2) ritual triggers mystic remora.  Cutpurse is also arguably better many face-off situations -- negator can't profitably attack into or block goyf, but cutpurse will usually hold him off.

The biggest advantage of cutpurse is that its blue, which means I can side it in for blue cards (including misdirection and merchant scroll) without compromising my fow count.  I'm not denying that is possible Negator (or confidant) is better, but my sense is that cutpurse is better in a deck scraping to support fows.