Blightsteel Colossus

[Bongo]

You are too picky about Vintage Mustard and how to cut it, apparently.

Heh, nice one!

Yeah, he has one big upside and that is the "I kill you in a single attack if you don't have anything" ability. However, there are too many ifs to make this new Colossus the consensus Tinker target. Although he has this flashy Infect ability, it's not something that remedies the flaw of Tinker targets. Namely being too slow against Storm and Dredge (sometimes VaultKey even outraces it) and not having sufficient protection. It's not even blue so that it can pitch to Force (that's relevant). You want a Tinker target that is good against Shop and Fish, and Blightsteel Colossus is not. Blockers, Swords, Duplicant, Tangle Wire, Smokestack, Welder - the list of cards that can handle it is pretty long. And now it got a little longer with Steel Sabotage (which I think is the most impactful card spoiled so far). Think about, why has Darksteel Colossus ceased to see play? It's exactly because of the reasons I outlined above.
Sure, if you can resolve an early Tinker and have backup to protect it, then it wins the game. But if you have an early Tinker with backup, does the target even matter much?

Sorry to ruin the party here. As a consolation: sell or trade this guy immediately to get maximum value out of it.

[vassago]

It seems that people have forgot about bounce....

I will def own one, but I doubt I'll use it much due to Jace or all the other really played very good bounce spells.

[Diakonov]

Hmm, I disagree, Bongo.  This would be an awesome card to Tinker for against MUD.  Welder doesn't see much play at all anymore, and as far as Tangle Wire/Smokestack goes, they would need to lock down every last permanent you have in one turn to stop it.  The only realistic answers I think are Sculpting Steel or Duplicant, which they would have to have in hand, and would likely be a major problem for any robot you tinker up anyway.

Darksteel stopped seeing play because the trade off two turns to three for some protection/forceability/lifelink was worth it.  ONE turn compared to three is a whole different story.

I was previously going back and forth between Sphinx and Battlesphere.  Battlesphere, in addition to the extra permanents, had the added benefit of potentially being a tinker threat against blue, but even then was often too slow.  Sphinx has always been way too slow against blue.  This guy, however, could be a legitimate plan of attack.

Against Fish, Swords could be an issue.  This is a problem for any of those three robots, though.  Battlesphere would provide you with 4 1/1's, which is definitely better, but on the other hand you only gain 4 life instead of 11.  In either situation you are just buying time.

I have a feeling that this will be the new Tinker target of choice--I'm not completely sold, however.  Depending on the meta, there are still some advantages to Sphinx and Battlesphere.

[MaximumCDawg]

You are too picky about Vintage Mustard and how to cut it, apparently.

Heh, nice one!

Yeah, he has one big upside and that is the "I kill you in a single attack if you don't have anything" ability. However, there are too many ifs to make this new Colossus the consensus Tinker target. Although he has this flashy Infect ability, it's not something that remedies the flaw of Tinker targets. Namely being too slow against Storm and Dredge (sometimes VaultKey even outraces it) and not having sufficient protection. It's not even blue so that it can pitch to Force (that's relevant). You want a Tinker target that is good against Shop and Fish, and Blightsteel Colossus is not. Blockers, Swords, Duplicant, Tangle Wire, Smokestack, Welder - the list of cards that can handle it is pretty long. And now it got a little longer with Steel Sabotage (which I think is the most impactful card spoiled so far). Think about, why has Darksteel Colossus ceased to see play? It's exactly because of the reasons I outlined above.
Sure, if you can resolve an early Tinker and have backup to protect it, then it wins the game. But if you have an early Tinker with backup, does the target even matter much?

Sorry to ruin the party here. As a consolation: sell or trade this guy immediately to get maximum value out of it.

I dunno, with that Tinker-on-a-stick dude in standard, I would not be surprised to see Blightsteel score headlines in standard.  Now, the rest of your points are all well taken, but all Tinker targets have weaknesses.  Inkwell and Sphinx are slow.  Myrball is vulnerable to targeted removal.  This dude is, too.  But, he totally eclipses Darksteel, though, and is probably one of the three (maybe four) choices now.  I don't see how this dude is a whole lot more vulnerable that the rest; we all pack tariff/curfew/recall/edict or whatever anyway.

There's another point here: Blightsteel makes Jace EVEN BETTER than before, since people are going to be experimenting with Blightsteel now, and Jace answers him.  I wonder if Jace will singlehandedly keep Blightsteel from seeing much play in the top 4?  We'll see.

[Troy_Costisick]

The thing about BSC is that he's the fastest Tinker target ever.  Yes, he's vulnerable to targeted bounce, but who plays that?  All I ever see is Hurkyl's and Nature's Claim, maybe Ancient Grudge.  All Tinker targets are vulnerable to Hurkyl's, so that's a non-issue.  BSC gets past Claim and Grudge so +1 for him.  You get BSC into play, and your opponent has one turn to win or answer.  That's it.  That's far fewer than the three or four turns Inky and Sphinx give him.  He's the most dangerous Tinker target there is.

[MaximumCDawg]

The thing about BSC is that he's the fastest Tinker target ever.  Yes, he's vulnerable to targeted bounce, but who plays that?  All I ever see is Hurkyl's and Nature's Claim, maybe Ancient Grudge.  All Tinker targets are vulnerable to Hurkyl's, so that's a non-issue.  BSC gets past Claim and Grudge so +1 for him.  You get BSC into play, and your opponent has one turn to win or answer.  That's it.  That's far fewer than the three or four turns Inky and Sphinx give him.  He's the most dangerous Tinker target there is.

You forgot the one perfect foil to Blightsteel that does see play all over the place, and will now likely see MORE play: Jace TMSC.  Like we needed a reason for him to get more expensive.

[DubDub]

The thing about BSC is that he's the fastest Tinker target ever.  Yes, he's vulnerable to targeted bounce, but who plays that?  All I ever see is Hurkyl's and Nature's Claim, maybe Ancient Grudge.  All Tinker targets are vulnerable to Hurkyl's, so that's a non-issue.  BSC gets past Claim and Grudge so +1 for him.  You get BSC into play, and your opponent has one turn to win or answer.  That's it.  That's far fewer than the three or four turns Inky and Sphinx give him.  He's the most dangerous Tinker target there is.

You forgot the one perfect foil to Blightsteel that does see play all over the place, and will now likely see MORE play: Jace TMSC.  Like we needed a reason for him to get more expensive.

Appeal in Vintage doesn't drive Jace's price.  24 copies of Jace in the top 8 of the latest SCG $5K standard open drives Jace's price.  Note the additional 14 copies in the rest of the top 16.  Though Jace is slightly less prevalent in Legacy than Vintage, Legacy's much broader playerbase makes it a bigger contributor to Jace's price than Vintage as well, but nowhere near Standard.

[the_lord_shaper]

There's a good chance that if Phyrexian Revoker becomes popular, then jace with decrease in numbers as well.

[Rico Suave]

Whether this sees widespread play or not, I'm really disappointed that Wizards would allow this card to see print.  Because I know in my next tournament my opponent is going to play Tinker on turn one, I'm going to die very quickly in that game, then I'm going to want to die in real life because it's just stupid.

[Tha Gunslinga]

This card makes me sad.  It's gg in one hit.  Imagine it with Show and Tell or Sneak Attack.

[Wagner]

This card makes me sad.  It's gg in one hit.  Imagine it with Show and Tell or Sneak Attack.

Is it really any worse than Emrakul with these 2 cards? They pretty much ensure victory, but Emrakul is a lot harder to get rid of and doesn't leave you much to recover, you can recover from this new guy if you have a blocker with 2 toughness.

[Elric]

No other creature in Magic literally ends the game, no matter what the situation, when it is not blocked.  It is a one-turn clock.  That is enormous, and I suspect you are underestimating how important that is.  Every other Tinker bot you mentioned might as well read: "Let your opponent untap once or twice more and draw three to five more cards and try to find a way out."  Blightsteel says "come up with an answer before I attack or it's game over."  Emrakul does this too, largely, but Emrakul can't be Tinkered. 

You are too picky about Vintage Mustard and how to cut it, apparently.

Surely you did not forget 1996 World Champion!  http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/arcana/91

[Tha Gunslinga]

This card makes me sad.  It's gg in one hit.  Imagine it with Show and Tell or Sneak Attack.

Is it really any worse than Emrakul with these 2 cards? They pretty much ensure victory, but Emrakul is a lot harder to get rid of and doesn't leave you much to recover, you can recover from this new guy if you have a blocker with 2 toughness.

It's 100% game, though, even if you have infinite life and permanents, as long as you don't have a blocker.  It also works with Tinker, which is the bigger concern.

[ishmoks]

I personally like this card. I welcome it to vintage. If all blue players want this as their tinker target, I welcome it.

Because it makes GOBLIN WELDER awesome again. Awesome that it can defend against the tinker bot play. It could not because of Sphinx and leviathan.

Mono Red Hate Decks, TMWA types of decks have a chance again DEAD/ GONE is back to being strong


I've learned to accept things as they come, and see the positive of things. I'm sick of all the whining and complaints. Reminds me of the starcraft 2 forums. Whine whine whine.

Vintage is broken, this card is good, but aint broken. Its strong, but not an instant win. Time vault voltaic key is broken.

Pack 4 welders, 4 Dead/Gone, 3 Sculpting Steel. Red has answers for this guy. I'm excited already

No more whining, start thinking and make new decks.

Good job Wizards!

[madmanmike25]

Well, there is technically an answer for every card...  Does that mean you should your deck should be forced to run all of them to stop one huge mistake from R+D?  It baffles me that some can't see the absolutely crazy power level of this card.

Jace will prevent this card from seeing play the way Null Rod prevents Moxen from seeing play...  Don't forget that decks that run Tinker/Oath will probably run some Jace's of their own.

Thanks, Wizards, for my one turn!


P.S.  The next Colossus should have trample+infect+indestructibility+flying+haste+firststrike+vigilance+shroud+banding(yes banding for the wtf factor) in order for you to fuck things up proper.  Good job.

[Nehptis]

Second, in case your opponent has a blocker with toughness 2 or higher, this doesn't do any damage.

Please clarify, why does it not do any damage?  I thought it would infect a 2/2 creature with 2 counters (-1/-1) and then trample over 9 damage (poison counters) to the player.

[TorpidNinja]

Second, in case your opponent has a blocker with toughness 2 or higher, this doesn't do any damage.

Please clarify, why does it not do any damage?  I thought it would infect a 2/2 creature with 2 counters (-1/-1) and then trample over 9 damage (poison counters) to the player.

If you get hit with this is doesn't impact your actual life total, meaning that you can still use that as a resource provided you have a turn to your name (re: getting hit for Infect <10).

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

The thing about BSC is that he's the fastest Tinker target ever.  Yes, he's vulnerable to targeted bounce, but who plays that?  All I ever see is Hurkyl's and Nature's Claim, maybe Ancient Grudge.  All Tinker targets are vulnerable to Hurkyl's, so that's a non-issue.  BSC gets past Claim and Grudge so +1 for him.  You get BSC into play, and your opponent has one turn to win or answer.  That's it.  That's far fewer than the three or four turns Inky and Sphinx give him.  He's the most dangerous Tinker target there is.

You forgot the one perfect foil to Blightsteel that does see play all over the place, and will now likely see MORE play: Jace TMSC.  Like we needed a reason for him to get more expensive.

This will not happen, for two or three reasons. One of which was already stated.

[RecklessEmbermage]

Hm. Scary. At first glance atleast.

I tend to play non-blue aggressive decks and when up against blue control, tinker for sphinx is probably the play I fear the most. Goblins or zoo can often race darksteel and leviathan isn't particularly scary. While this guy is more threatening than those (being faster), it is quite a bit worse than sphinx: Both creatures will tend to win the race if they get to swing once, but this guy gives me one effective attack before that happens.

However, this guy will tempt control players to run only one tinker target. They get to either save a sideboard slot or avoid siding out tinker in the mirror matches (where sphinx is mediocre, as far as I can understand). It makes tinker a stronger card, but more evenly so across match-ups.

-If I play white, I'cant disenchant this like sphinx and I get two fewer turns to find a stp.

-In the oath match-up, the nature of the beast is of little importance, since if oath triggers I lose nine times out of ten.

Funny. I guess I like that this guy exists. Even though it is gross in comparison with good old robot and will make even more kids cry.

[Killane]

It's true that this has tremendous dis-synergy with Tendrils and any other attacking creature. That alone might keep it out of certain decks. It's much worse than DSC if your opponent has a Necropotence and a way to take less than 10 damage (a blocker, etc...). It's not a good as Battlesphere vs an active Smokestack (if they have blockers) or Tanglewire. It's much worse than SoTSW vs any deck that has Goblin Welders.

I still think that the one hit = kill factor makes this slightly better than the other available targets, but it's not even close to a blowout. It do think that decks more focused on Tinker with backup (as opposed to Key-Vault with backup) are made mroe viable with this creature. I think it is a beter win then Key-Vault, as there is no such thing as an unanswerable gamestate with this creautre (whereas Key-Vault cannot usually beat infinite life), and only 1 of the cards is (mostly) dead on its own.

Speculation- Show and Tell? EUREKA????

No, I don;t think it makes Dragon's Breath worth it. It's close, but if Emrakul didn't make breathe worth it, I don't think this does either. I'd rather have Emrakul in every case except infinite life.

It might make Lightning Greaves worth it in a dedicated Tinker deck though - Greaves is also good with Confidant, Welder, and other creatures by giving them shroud.

Hmmmm (starts brewing).

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

Whether this sees widespread play or not, I'm really disappointed that Wizards would allow this card to see print.  Because I know in my next tournament my opponent is going to play Tinker on turn one, I'm going to die very quickly in that game, then I'm going to want to die in real life because it's just stupid.

I'm not really too disappointed this is seeing print. I haven’t seen DSC in any winning deck for a while now, and my last memory of people playing it in elephant oath I disagreed with. It quickly disappeared from 90% of the oath lists in favor of Sphinx and inkwell.
Oddly enough this dude is not strictly better than DSC, However, I would still say better. This is a tinker bot you can potentially block with trygon predator, then hurks, and have no consequence to your life total for bobs (most blue deck have 3-4 bounce for this thing main deck).  Or block with a load stone and dupe with no consequence to life total for ancient to tomb. This dude is not “the best tinker bot” but is a replacement for a near obsolete option.  This guy just makes the choice of tinker bot more interesting and diversifies the format, every little bit helps.
In standard this guy already has a lot to compete with, the eldrazi, frost titan, avenger, primeval titan. Again just another option.
I guarantee there is some flavored story line reason for this dude to exist .I’m sure DSC gets infected in one of the books, or web comics, or w/e wizards does with this now. And I’m sure some kid is like “wow I can’t wait to play with the evolution off a favorite Mirrodin dude.”

[ishmoks]

Well, there is technically an answer for every card...  Does that mean you should your deck should be forced to run all of them to stop one huge mistake from R+D?  It baffles me that some can't see the absolutely crazy power level of this card.

Jace will prevent this card from seeing play the way Null Rod prevents Moxen from seeing play...  Don't forget that decks that run Tinker/Oath will probably run some Jace's of their own.

Thanks, Wizards, for my one turn!


P.S.  The next Colossus should have trample+infect+indestructibility+flying+haste+firststrike+vigilance+shroud+banding(yes banding for the wtf factor) in order for you to fuck things up proper.  Good job.

Here's a budget deck I'm toying with.


Liquimetal Shaman

4 Gorilla Shaman
4 Manic Vandal
4 Goblin Welder
4 Magus of the Moon
2 Arc Slogger
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Liquimetal Coating
3 Sculpting Steel

4 lightning bolt
3 Dead/Gone
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Shattering Spree

2 Chrome Mox
2 Ancient Tomb
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
9 Mountains
4 Great Furnace (to up the artifact count for welder tricks)

This deck is a Hate Red deck designed to abuse Liquimetal coating and Gorilla Shaman.

Its technically a Mana denial deck, With the shaman destroying moxen and lands (via liquimetal coating). Wastelands and strip mines to deny mana. In the absence of strip effects, you have magus of the moon to color screw the opponent, and to stop workshops, bazaars, man lands, tolarian academy, etc.

With Liquimetal coating, you can destroy any permanent with Manic Vandal and Shattering Spree. You can copy any permanent with Sculpting Steel.

With Sphinx of the Steel Wind and Inkwell Leviathan, Goblin welder is not effective. Goblin Welder was main decked to deal with tinker if they get time vault or anything that doesn't have protection/shroud.

NOW, if people start packing BSC, WELDER will be more effective. WELDER is in my deck Also to return countered/or destroyed Liquimetal coatings or sculpting steels.

When it was only DSC around, WELDER was very effective to counter it. TMWA had it, Mud had it.

People should stop freaking out because of the Power of BSC. Its not broken and can definitely be dealt with.

And definitely not packing WELDER and DEAD GONE for the sole purpose of stopping BSC.  DEAD/GONE is good because it can bounce tarmogoyfs and other big dudes that dont have protection. That card is also used to kill Confidants, meddling mages, heirarchs, METALWORKER, and all other small dudes seen in vintage.

This deck build was made even before BSC. And its pretty fun to use. I'm sure you've seen Red decks similar to this in the forums.

The point of this post to help people to stop freaking out about BSC. I'm glad its around, I use a tinker deck myself, and will definitely get a copy of BSC.

BSC is really fast good, but not broken. Can definitely be dealt with. We just gotta adjust and be creative. My deck just got better if people made BSC  their tinker robot of choice. I wasn't forced to run all those card just to kill BSC. It was there for the reasons I stated above. WELDER was already there without a card like BSC in mind.

I'm glad BSC is around since its a good card that made the Tinker-bot plan kill faster. 1 Turn Clock is good. But time vault is still way more powerful, I win now, you never get a turn. So by now, aren't we all used to brokenness? Isn't that the beauty of Vintage?

BSC will never be as expensive as timevault, thus giving me another reason to be glad its around. More cheap options to choose for the tinker bot plan.

See the positive side of things. Its way more interesting that way.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Speculation- Show and Tell? EUREKA????

Seeing as Emrakul is only vulnerable to Jace TMS, I think it remains better than BSC when methods other than Tinker are being used to cheat a critter into play.

[hyperchord24]

At first glace, it seems that BSC is better than anything currently that can be oathed up of Tinkered out because it does it one turn faster.  But it's not that simple, is it?

[Delha]

At first glace, it seems that BSC is better than anything currently that can be oathed up of Tinkered out because it does it one turn faster.  But it's not that simple, is it?

I agree with AmbivalentDuck's last post.

If you're Oathing, Emrakul is probably better. I'd argue that it's a de facto game over once he swings, and with less vulnerability before that point.

[Rico Suave]

I'm not really too disappointed this is seeing print.

My problem isn't really with Blightsteel Colossus itself.

My problem is that this means Wizards is OK with adding yet another really stupid play to the Vintage format.  Now maybe I think it's stupid and someone else thinks it's really awesome, which is fine because we all have our own opinions, but just maybe it wasn't necessary to print this card either.

[Mr. Type 4]

If you're Oathing, Emrakul is probably better. I'd argue that it's a de facto game over once he swings, and with less vulnerability before that point.

True, but the point of running a tinker-bot in an Oath deck is to have the option to tinker it out.  Sphinx of the Steel Wind has always been annoying to hit on your first oath trigger, but you put up with it because it's the "B plan" when Oath isn't feasible. 

[Sporkcore]

No other creature in Magic literally ends the game, no matter what the situation, when it is not blocked.  It is a one-turn clock.  That is enormous, and I suspect you are underestimating how important that is.  Every other Tinker bot you mentioned might as well read: "Let your opponent untap once or twice more and draw three to five more cards and try to find a way out."  Blightsteel says "come up with an answer before I attack or it's game over."  Emrakul does this too, largely, but Emrakul can't be Tinkered. 

You are too picky about Vintage Mustard and how to cut it, apparently.

Surely you did not forget 1996 World Champion!  http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/arcana/91

You forgot about Phage.

[Troy_Costisick]

If you're Oathing, Emrakul is probably better. I'd argue that it's a de facto game over once he swings, and with less vulnerability before that point.

True, but the point of running a tinker-bot in an Oath deck is to have the option to tinker it out.  Sphinx of the Steel Wind has always been annoying to hit on your first oath trigger, but you put up with it because it's the "B plan" when Oath isn't feasible. 

Exactly.  BSC is an Oath creature you don't mind seeing because he kills as quickly as the others.  Sphinx is slow.

[BruiZar]

I'm not really too disappointed this is seeing print.

Now maybe I think it's stupid and someone else thinks it's really awesome, which is fine because we all have our own opinions, but just maybe it wasn't necessary to print this card either.

To the person that thinks its awesome, lets see how awesome it is when the next iteration gets haste and shroud.

There is not much space for powercreep left.