Spine of Ish Sah

[BC]

Spine of Ish Sah
7
Artifact    
Rare
When Spine of Ish Sah enters the battlefield, destroy target permanent.
When Spine of Ish Sah is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, return Spine of Ish Sah to its owner's hand.

Seems pretty bitchin' to me.  Probably better than Duplicant in Stax/MUD.  Can do pretty wacky stuff with Welder, Smokestack, Bazaar...

[serracollector]

Desert Twister on a stick, for only 1 more mana to boot.  But in Mud is this any better than say, All is Dust?

[TheWhiteDragon]

This  thing will suck.  Duplicant removes a threat and gives you a threat in exchange.  This thing removes a threat and gives you a 3x5 piece of cardboard.  It costs 1 more, which isn't irrelevant.  Also, without a way to kill it, it is a 1 for 1 that gives you nothing.

[Neonico]

It's a very good one of in 5c STax....

For MUD, as said, it's worse than All is Dust, except if hitting a land is really important (which it's not ithink, we got enough in the deck for that).

[tezzajw]

It kills Null Rod and Smokestacks.  All is Dust doesn't.

It can be cast using Workshops.  All is Dust can't.

It can be copied with Sculpting Steel.  All is Dust can't.

It can be tapped/sacrificed to Tangle Wire/Smokestack.  All is Dust can't.

It can be animated by Karn and swapped with Goblin Welder.  All is Dust can't.

It helps achieve metalcraft.  All is Dust doesn't. 

It might be a sideboard option for some MUD decks to solve some problems.

[Ego_Sum]

Decent Sinergy with master transmuter, though transmuter is not played a lot.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

[Diakonov]

It's worth noting that the "return to hand" effect is a triggered ability, so you can weld it back in in response.  If you did that, would it return to your hand from play?

Obviously awesome with Master Transmuter.  Welder + Transmuter here would be saucy.

[Bill Copes]

This thing is nutty with smokestack in metalworker mud.  Smokey at 1 wipes out 2 perms a turn.  I might actually pick up shops again.

[BruiZar]

This thing is nutty with smokestack in metalworker mud.  Smokey at 1 wipes out 2 perms a turn.  I might actually pick up shops again.

That sounds very good, not only do you not lose anything yourself except for 7 mana, you destroy more permanents than they can play lands in a single turn, every turn.

[Killane]

It's also worth noting that if you weld this out, it goes back to your hand. This seems highly abuseable.

[Delha]

This  thing will suck.  Duplicant removes a threat and gives you a threat in exchange.  This thing removes a threat and gives you a 3x5 piece of cardboard.  It costs 1 more, which isn't irrelevant.  Also, without a way to kill it, it is a 1 for 1 that gives you nothing.

Duplicant doesn't hit Jace, or Vault, or Oath. Not really a great comparison. Also, if you're gonna plug this into a deck at all, I'm assuming you're running ways to abuse its reusability. Oath is pretty shitty in Elves! doesn't make it an inherently useless card, it just means that it should go in a deck built to break it.

It's worth noting that the "return to hand" effect is a triggered ability, so you can weld it back in in response.  If you did that, would it return to your hand from play?

If you weld this back in before the trigger goes off, it does not bounce.

[madlucas]

Transmute Artifact will love this.

[Phele]

Transmute Artifact will love this.

As far as I see it, Transmute will just put it in your grave and that's it. When you don't pay enought mana or sac a high costed artifact it will never hit the battlefield.

[Beralt]

Well if you transmute it wii it return to hand and then you can transmute into it again? Similar to how Master Transmuter can/would work?

[DubDub]

Well if you transmute it wii it return to hand and then you can transmute into it again? Similar to how Master Transmuter can/would work?

Unless you pay the difference and it remains in play, it never hits the battlefield in the first place.  And it has to move from the battlefield to the graveyard to trigger returning to hand.  Here's a reminder on Transmute Artifact's current errata.

[Beralt]

Brain fart on my part, I know the current errata on Transmute (although thanks for the heads up). For some reason I was thinking it put an artifact from your hand into play.

[serracollector]

But if you already have 1 in play, and transmute it out for a 2nd one, for 2 blue mana to boot, the original returns to your hand correct?  Then its just bazaar/welder to switch 1 for the other, repeat?

[DubDub]

But if you already have 1 in play, and transmute it out for a 2nd one, for 2 blue mana to boot, the original returns to your hand correct?  Then its just bazaar/welder to switch 1 for the other, repeat?

...Sure; if all that, then all that.

[Saya]

MUD's 7mana vindicate?

[zimagic]

It's also worth noting that if you weld this out, it goes back to your hand. This seems highly abuseable.

Mentioned on the EDH boards but maybe someone here could figure out an easier/cheaper way:

This + Sculpting Steel + Krark-Clan Ironworks = X: Destroy X target permanents.

[Meddling Mike]

Nobody in their right mind would compare this card to All Is Dust or Duplicant. The reasons why there is no comparison have already been stated so I won't go over them again. This is a REALLY powerful card.

[Prospero]

The effect is powerful, but at seven mana, we're entering the 'I must Weld this into play' territory.  The card just isn't good enough for that.

It's one mana too expensive, at least.

The return effect is cool, but there is no effective way to remove it from the battlefield - you have to remove it yourself.

Given that this is at the top end of your curve, it probably bears comparison with some of the other cards that are at the top end of your curve.  Given that this card seems to fit in a colored Shop build better, I'm going to ask (rhetorical) questions bearing that in mind.

Is this card better than Sundering Titan in most board states?  Probably not.

Does this card answer all the problem permanents that you need to answer?  No.  See BSC for a current good reference on this.

Does this card stand on its own as an independent threat?  No, because it needs too much help from the other cards in your deck to have its effect. 

What really kills it for me, right now, is BSC.  I think that card is going to have a major, major impact on the metagame.  If you felt like you had a slot or two to spare in your Shop deck, I think those slots are now spoken for.  I'd run Duplicant over this card any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

My two cents...

[DubDub]

The return effect is cool, but there is no effective way to remove it from the battlefield - you have to remove it yourself.

Are you willfully ignoring Smokestack?

[Prospero]

The return effect is cool, but there is no effective way to remove it from the battlefield - you have to remove it yourself.

Are you willfully ignoring Smokestack?

Not in the least.  

But when do you expect to be casting this card?  Unlike Sundering Titan, it's not going to be wiping out mana bases in one shot.  It kills one threat at a time, if it can kill that threat.  So, the first real question is, what permanents in particular do you feel the need to hit with this card that aren't better answered with some of the other Shop cards available?

You're also pushed into a position where you're going to be expending all (or nearly all) of your mana each turn in re-casting this.

Shop decks, especially MUD decks, run a fair number of Spheres and Thorns.  The only Sphere effect that this card avoids is Lodestone Golem.  This card will rarely actually cost 7 mana if you're casting it.  If you have a Lodestone on the board, you should probably be swinging and winning with it.  At which point, this card doesn't really do all that much.

If you're using Bazaar of Baghdad and Goblin Welder to trick it into play, why wouldn't you use cards that shrink their board faster?

[DubDub]

The return effect is cool, but there is no effective way to remove it from the battlefield - you have to remove it yourself.

Are you willfully ignoring Smokestack?

Not in the least.  etc.

My one-liner above doesn't fully encapture my thoughts on this card, and I wasn't trying to bait you into making a more detailed post, though I'm glad you did.

I think we're really largely in agreement about this card.  It has potential, but it also has issues.  In particular I agree with you that its main issue is the casting cost, and that as you said the only Sphere effect it dodges is Lodestone.  This is why I found it a bit funny that your earlier post focused on getting the card out of play, when getting it into play is the real issue.  You can see a similar tongue-in-cheek comment from me to that effect above:

But if you already have 1 in play, and transmute it out for a 2nd one, for 2 blue mana to boot, the original returns to your hand correct?  Then its just bazaar/welder to switch 1 for the other, repeat?

...Sure; if all that, then all that.

Does this card maintain Smokestack@1 all by itself, with benefits (extra targeted Vindicates)?  Yes.
Does Crucible maintain Smokestack@1 all by itself, with (comparative) benefits?  Yes.  The benefits in comparison being costing instead of , and generating value repeatedly in combination with Wasteland or Strip Mine, not just Smokestack.

In summary, I like this card a great deal, I think it's an interesting option for Workshop decks, but it will take some work to fully abuse this card.  It doesn't, in my estimation, fit directly into existing Workshop decks as an upgrade to a card currently in use.  The card does have synergies which will have to be explored, and I would not be surprised to see it become a bit player.  As with all cards, Spine's positioning could change drastically with a new printing or errata change.  In particular returning Transmute Artifact to its original functionality could greatly power this card up.  I could imagine a blue-Stax shell with

4x Transmute Artifact (with errata to make it 'work')
1x Tinker
4x Master Transmuter
4x Spine
1x Sundering Titan

[Mr. Type 4]

The obvious problem with this card is that there are so many good Shop cards at 6 mana that 7 seems unreasonable.  I could get Steel Hellkite for 6 - not that they're the same, but i think a lot of the time I'd rather just have Steel hellkite.  The bottom line is that there's a lot of great cards you can play in Shop and they all compete for deck space - I'm not sure this is going to be good enough to make you want to cut something else 

It's 'return to hand" clause also actually makes it worse with Welders.  To get some good welder action going I need to pay 7 mana to play it fairly or have another effect to discard it.  It picks up some synergy if you have bazaar of bagdad, though, but now it's like a 3 card combo to destroy a perm every turn and gain a bit of card advantage. 

[Meddling Mike]

But when do you expect to be casting this card?  Unlike Sundering Titan, it's not going to be wiping out mana bases in one shot.  It kills one threat at a time, if it can kill that threat.  So, the first real question is, what permanents in particular do you feel the need to hit with this card that aren't better answered with some of the other Shop cards available?

It's true that Sundering Titan is better at dealing with LANDS and Duplicant is better at dealing with Creatures, but I think the point of this card that's being undersold is the sheer utility it provides. It deals with just about everything that does not involve tinker being cast. This includes a number of permanents that  previously could only be answered situationally by smokestack or possibly tangle wire.

[Prospero]

But when do you expect to be casting this card?  Unlike Sundering Titan, it's not going to be wiping out mana bases in one shot.  It kills one threat at a time, if it can kill that threat.  So, the first real question is, what permanents in particular do you feel the need to hit with this card that aren't better answered with some of the other Shop cards available?

It's true that Sundering Titan is better at dealing with LANDS and Duplicant is better at dealing with Creatures, but I think the point of this card that's being undersold is the sheer utility it provides. It deals with just about everything that does not involve tinker being cast. This includes a number of permanents that  previously could only be answered situationally by smokestack or possibly tangle wire.

What permanents in particular would you like to address that you believe aren't better addressed by a card currently seeing play in MUD/Shop decks?

[Sextiger]

Jace is the primary standout for the moment. 

[BC]

How about Energy Flux?