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Author Topic: Demars WiFi  (Read 4485 times)
Meddling Mike
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« on: September 28, 2011, 03:13:52 pm »

Brian Demars recently published his set review for Vintage ( and put forth the following list for consideration:

1 Island
3 City of Brass
1 Swamp
4 Mental Misstep
4 Force of Will
1 Strip Mine
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stony Silence
3 Thoughtseize
1 Brainstorm
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Dark Confidant
4 Wasteland
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Mox Pearl
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Black Lotus
2 Tundra
1 Time Walk
1 Mox Jet
2 Underground Sea
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mox Sapphire
4 Spell Pierce

2 Disenchant
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Crucible Of Worlds
2 Energy Flux
4 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Swords to Plowshares

He mentioned that he did not have the opportunity to test/fine tune this list, so I thought it might be an interesting discussion to see how we can improve on this.

Some of the thoughts that occurred to me:

1) The deck is a bit creature light at 10 in the maindeck with no alternate means of winning the game. This is no doubt the result of trying to maximize the value of Snapcaster Mage by having a maximum number of targets available, but I still think it should have more creatures. By comparison, Nat Moes "Wizards!" has 23 creatures.

2) Swords to Plowshares > Leonin Relic Warder? I recently questioned this the other way when looking at Nat Moes list. I think it's safe to say that the most troublesome creatures the deck is likely to see are indeed artifacts. I think that the fundamental differences in the build might explain this differences. If you have Stony Silence you probably don't want Aether Vial, if you don't want Aether Vial then Leonin Relic Warder is always sorcery speed, counterable and has a cumbersome mana cost at WW. Similarly, with 4 Snapcaster Mages Swords to Plowshares is another target.

3) Spell Pierce > Flusterstorm? I think I've made the argument about this in another thread. I suppose this comes down to how scared you are of Non-creature artifacts, Planeswalker and Enchantments.

4) Vendilion Clique? This guy would actually seem more at home in Nat Moes Wizards! where it has great synergy with the Meddling Mages and Phyrexian Revoker. Here, I guess you can figure out if you want to Clique your opponent or yourself after using Thoughtseize, but that seems pretty marginal. I suppose it would be nice to have an out to Chalice of the Void at 2, but I think there might be better options. Aven Mindcensor perhaps?

5) Mental Misstep? I'm still on the fence about this card, although a number of players who are better than me have spoken highly about it's effectiveness in Vintage. I think this does fit the deck as it does attack an opponent's mana base, possibly causing them to cast more 1cc spells than they would normally.

6) Does this deck have any tools to beat Workshops? I can see that Snapcaster provides recurrable Swords to Plowshares to slow down the more aggressive builds like Cat Stax Fever, but I can't help but think some maindeck Kataki, War's Wage would really help out in that matchup.

Meddling Mike posts so loudly that nobody can get a post in edgewise.

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« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2011, 03:35:11 pm »

As someone who only knows about workshops, I'd say this deck will have a game against Cat Stax no problem.  With the ability to flash in a Snapcaster Mage unaffected by Thorn, reuse your spell, block, kill and trade with a 4/2 cat all on your opponents turn.    Same goes for the ones that run Phyrexian Revoker maindeck.

In shop aggro without Slash Panther, it seems like a much tougher matchup due to the inability to deal with cards like Wurmcoil and Steel Hellkite as effectively

The use of maindeck STP is the dangerous one, as Disenchant, Ancient Grudge and the like are a lot less scary to Wurmcoils and creatures with indestructible/regenerate.  Note that regenerate will rarely ever come up, but cards like Masticore become a lot more tempting with Confidants, Snapcasters, Kataki, Ichorid, and regeneration.  In that case I'm pretty sure unless you play me, you won't have to worry, but again you never know.

Snapcaster is just one more reason I don't plan on playing Slash Panther any time soon
« Last Edit: September 28, 2011, 03:37:51 pm by yespuhyren » Logged

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Jamison: Hard cast FoW.
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« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2011, 12:40:58 pm »

Im really excited like alot of people about snapcast and I think its ok that the deck is creature light. Snapcast reminds of cascade. It might as well be considered a draw spell before a beater, I can see this deck playing a whole lot of draw go and just out performing your opponent in card advantage. 4 bob and 4 snapcast means you'll be seeing everything you want to for each match up. Youll get more removal when you want and youll get more counters when you want. The 2/1 body can be great against creature heavy decks as they net you more counters or removal while you clog up the board with blocks that have a little bite.

On the other hand it could use a little more beef, maybe throw in tinkerbot  and switch to rods or maybe a jace or two. Hell maybe there's a really resilient 4 drop out there that you can tutor up to complement the creature base. Its a bit tough to see this deck actually getting in 20 damage in time, but who knows maybe it'll work like landstill and youll just be able to deal with/counter everything once you control the board.

I personally like the idea of running traditional fish with just one or two snapcast to randomly blow out your opponent like landstill did with 2 of daze.

Another possibility could be killing the stony silence strategy and running a sort-of dumptruck style build with more excel and silver bullets; could work nicely with snapcast.
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« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2012, 01:57:27 pm »

I really think the deck needs jace. He is the extra draw engine and bounce for tinkerbot and win condition when u need it. he fits perfect here.
Bill Copes
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« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2012, 02:17:38 pm »

3 City of Brass, 4 Confidant, 3 Thoughtsieze.  How do you stay alive to win the game?

I'm the only other legal target, so I draw 6 cards, and he literally quits Magic. 

Terrorists searching in vain for these powerful weapons have the saying "Bill Copes spitteth, and he taketh away."

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« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2012, 07:35:18 am »

Maybe it would be a good idea to put in some SFM and a Batterskull. It keeps you alive with all the life loss.

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