American BoM Style Event/Prize Support

[Prospero]

I'm currently looking into putting together a very large Vintage tournament, to be held in the spring of 2013, but I want more information from the community about the entry fees/prize support levels that are preferred.  If you've got any other opinions, please voice them here.  This planning is in its infancy, and may amount to nothing, but I'd like to gauge the interest of the community.

Also, where do you live, and would you be willing to make the trip from wherever that is for an American Vintage event for guaranteed power?

[TheProfessor]

I would love for an event like this to take place!  I live in Louisiana and wouldn't mind traveling for an event of this caliber.  My only concerns about this type of event are security and time of the year that the event would be held.  Im not going to go into the whole security ordeal since we had a great discussion about security in Rich Shay's GenCon thread, but I would like to express my thoughts about the tournament being held in the Spring.  Being a student, I am not sure that I would be able to miss class for this event, although I do understand that holding the tournament in the Spring would be easier on a lot of people because it allows a large gap of time in between said tournament and GenCon (for those attending). Either way, I would do my best to attend because I love vintage, and there are no local tournaments for me to attend. I appreciate you looking into making something like this possible!  

[honestabe]

I'm in RI.  I'm fairly certain my roommates and I would go to something like this, as long as school wasn't too bad and we could find cards.  We'd probably be willing to travel a few hours, but nothing we couldn't do in a day trip.

[boggyb]

I live in New York, and would come if proxies were allowed, if there were a car pool I could hang a ride on, and if it were within ~2-3 hours of me.

[Prospero]

To respond, backwards:

1.  Proxies would definitely be allowed.  I'd either run it as 10 proxies with the option to purchase five more for a dollar apiece, or just as a straight 15.  I'd probably run it as a straight 15, but there are a lot of incidental expenses for an event like this.

2.  I'd be looking at North Jersey as the rough location for this event.  It's convenient enough for the NY crowd, doesn't involve a trip down Long Island for everybody else, and is very accessible by road and air.  Flights into Newark are almost always the cheapest of the three N.Y.C. area airports.  North Jersey is easily accessible by highway as well, obviously.  You would, theoretically, be able to make a day trip of it.

3.  Security is always a concern.  There are little things that can be done to make this event safe for everybody (and I intend on doing them), but finding a happy medium between secure enough to make people comfortable and overbearing is a concern.

[quicksilvervii]

CT here.  If this is real, I'm in.

[rpf5029]

I love this idea!  I voted for $50, but I probably should have selected $50+ -- it's only one / one per year, after all.  However, even with almost a year in advance to plan, I'm worried that you might not be able to get an adequate turn out for full Power 9 (+), especially if you have to rent out a large venue and deal with security issues.    

[Twaun007]

I voted $50+ - For the craziest prize support any American Vintage TO has ever given out.

I know with proper planning and scheduling you could pull 98% of Cleveland's vintage players to a BoM style tourney. Due to distance issues, I don't know who you'd pull in west of Ohio. The ICBM missile silo has been abandoned for a few years, Vroman and the St. Lunatics haven't made any waves lately, and Michigan's vintage scene is a barren wasteland. Going West of Ohio the Vintage scene looks like this.



If you look closely you can see Ben Carp trading for miscuts in the distance.

Perhaps with planning, advanced scheduling, and a crap ton of hype you could reinvigorate the vintage midwest scene a bit. I'm all for it!

  

[GrandpaBelcher]

Perhaps with planning, advanced scheduling, and a crap ton of hype you could reinvigorate the vintage midwest scene a bit. I'm all for it!

Planning and scheduling are the two biggest things. If you try to pull this off with one or even three months of forewarning, a lot of people won't be able to make it if they have to travel a long distance. People need to save up days off, money for plane tickets or gas, and know to reserve that date from family functions etc.

[quicksilvervii]

I voted $50+ - For the craziest prize support any American Vintage TO has ever given out.

I know with proper planning and scheduling you could pull 98% of Cleveland's vintage players to a BoM style tourney. Due to distance issues, I don't know who you'd pull in west of Ohio. The ICBM missile silo has been abandoned for a few years, Vroman and the St. Lunatics haven't made any waves lately, and Michigan's vintage scene is a barren wasteland. Going West of Ohio the Vintage scene looks like this.



If you look closely you can see Ben Carp trading for miscuts in the distance.

Perhaps with planning, advanced scheduling, and a crap ton of hype you could reinvigorate the vintage midwest scene a bit. I'm all for it!

  

I actually laughed out loud at this.

I also voted for 50+ for insane prize support.  I figure if it is going to be the insane once a year tourney, I'll pay the extra 30$.  From what DeMars has been writing and a few others have mentioned, I would not be surprised if they came to play.  I don't want to put words in their mouth though, so I will let them respond.

Nobody has mentioned the possibility of Europeans coming to this event.  I wonder what their thoughts are on the subject (especially since this is a proxy event as of this post).  I know more than a few US players travel out to make it to the Bazaar.  Have you reached out to the TOs of that event for any insight?

[Daenyth]

It depends where it's held. I voted $40 but if the my travel costs had to include a plane/hotel it rapidly becomes more worthwhile to just buy the cards I want outright.

[Bill Copes]

It depends where it's held. I voted $40 but if the my travel costs had to include a plane/hotel it rapidly becomes more worthwhile to just buy the cards I want outright.

It should be more about playing in the event than what you walk away with!

I'm totally totally totally in.  Voted 50+ 'cause we like it crazy.

[Meddling Mike]

I'd actually be in support of a sort of in between option. As a vintage TO it can be a dangerous proposition to put up a massive guaranteed prize support regardless of the entry fee. I would be most in favor of the $50 entry fee (If I'm paying the cost of gas/hotel room I'm not going to balk at $50 entry fee) and I would say guarantee a set of Power 9 with additional prize support that scales with attendance. A guaranteed full set of power is definitely enough to get people excited, bring in some typical non-vintage players and drag people out of the woodwork without completely leaving your ass hanging in the breeze.

[Prospero]

It depends where it's held. I voted $40 but if the my travel costs had to include a plane/hotel it rapidly becomes more worthwhile to just buy the cards I want outright.

I'm looking at North Jersey.  Not as many of our core members of the community live there as I'd like, but it's relatively close to everybody - PA, South Jersey, NY, etc.  You shouldn't have to pay for plane/hotel, as you're coming from MA, right?  I don't intend on doing a two day event, as one day for an event like this is already a big commitment.

I'd actually be in support of a sort of in between option. As a vintage TO it can be a dangerous proposition to put up a massive guaranteed prize support regardless of the entry fee. I would be most in favor of the $50 entry fee (If I'm paying the cost of gas/hotel room I'm not going to balk at $50 entry fee) and I would say guarantee a set of Power 9 with additional prize support that scales with attendance. A guaranteed full set of power is definitely enough to get people excited, bring in some typical non-vintage players and drag people out of the woodwork without completely leaving your ass hanging in the breeze.

That's not the worst idea in the world.  I want the draw to be strong enough that people come, so the eight pieces of power that would be guaranteed to top eight seems like a pretty strong draw, to start.  $40 entry fees pay for top 16 prize support.  I don't know what, specifically, it will entail, but I know that more than $3,000 will be committed to the power.  Add in the venue, staff, and the rest of the top 16 prizes and we're around $4,000, if not a little over. 

I'd basically need at least 100 players for an event like this to break even.

[Cruel Ultimatum]

The more proxies the better. If anything, 15 proxies + 5 might be the best because its easier for legacy or edh players to come.

Also I voted 50+, but in reality I would vote 40-75

[Demonic Attorney]

As of the time this tournament will be happening, I'll be a resident of Boston, Mass., having finally extricated myself from the 'burbs. Money isn't really a primary consideration for me; I'm more concerned with the travel and scheduling logistics. As long as I don't need to invest an inordinate amount of time traveling, I'm much more likely to attend.

Also, and relatedly, I think a bigger entrance fee/prize payout will be more effective at incentivizing people to travel longer distances to play. Traveling 6+ hours for a single Mox payout obviously isn't worth it, while the chance to win a Lotus (or more) makes the effort involved with traveling seem more worthwhile. Also, if I'm already committed to driving/flying, hotel accommodations, blocking off a weekend, etc., another $10 added to the entrance fee isn't really a big deal, especially if it generates better prizes.

Another suggestion: Offer pre-registration discounts. We've all seen the predictable ritual of a tournament being announced with a lot of lead time, generating a chorus of "OMFGHIJKLMNOP, I AM SO THERE!" from legions of posters, only to have a fraction of those who swore to be there actually show up. One way to control that problem might be to offer a 10% discount to people who pre-register (and prepay) a month or two in advance, with the understanding that the fee is absolutely non-refundable.

[Prospero]

As of the time this tournament will be happening, I'll be a resident of Boston, Mass., having finally extricated myself from the 'burbs. Money isn't really a primary consideration for me; I'm more concerned with the travel and scheduling logistics. As long as I don't need to invest an inordinate amount of time traveling, I'm much more likely to attend.

Also, and relatedly, I think a bigger entrance fee/prize payout will be more effective at incentivizing people to travel longer distances to play. Traveling 6+ hours for a single Mox payout obviously isn't worth it, while the chance to win a Lotus (or more) makes the effort involved with traveling seem more worthwhile. Also, if I'm already committed to driving/flying, hotel accommodations, blocking off a weekend, etc., another $10 added to the entrance fee isn't really a big deal, especially if it generates better prizes.

Another suggestion: Offer pre-registration discounts. We've all seen the predictable ritual of a tournament being announced with a lot of lead time, generating a chorus of "OMFGHIJKLMNOP, I AM SO THERE!" from legions of posters, only to have a fraction of those who swore to be there actually show up. One way to control that problem might be to offer a 10% discount to people who pre-register (and prepay) a month or two in advance, with the understanding that the fee is absolutely non-refundable.

I think it's definitely worth doing.  I don't know how active people will be in looking to save that $5, but I hope that it's incentive enough.  I like this idea.

The more proxies the better. If anything, 15 proxies + 5 might be the best because its easier for legacy or edh players to come.

Also I voted 50+, but in reality I would vote 40-75

I like this idea too.  Realistically I don't think you can charge more than $60, and I'm very reluctant to go that route, but I think that the $50 entry fee is going to happen, given the results of the poll so far.

[boggyb]

Also, DEFINITELY seek out the BOM organizers themselves and ask for their advice. Dudes have surely learned a ton over the years. Biggest question is, what's the functional relationship between prize support, distance people are willing to travel, and expected size given the average distance of competitors to the tournament. I bet there's a sweet spot there that you'd want to hit.

Also, any chance that SCG would be interested in covering the event? Longshot I know, especially with the proxies and all. But maybe worth an email exchange or two using some of the connections that board members here have. If not SCG, it'd be nice to have some commentary on the matches, too, to help promote the format.

Speaking of coverage, I have a Canon 7D you can borrow for streaming if you like -- I've never hooked that up before, but if someone knows how to work the equipment, you can borrow mine.

[Prospero]

Also, DEFINITELY seek out the BOM organizers themselves and ask for their advice. Dudes have surely learned a ton over the years. Biggest question is, what's the functional relationship between prize support, distance people are willing to travel, and expected size given the average distance of competitors to the tournament. I bet there's a sweet spot there that you'd want to hit.

Also, any chance that SCG would be interested in covering the event? Longshot I know, especially with the proxies and all. But maybe worth an email exchange or two using some of the connections that board members here have. If not SCG, it'd be nice to have some commentary on the matches, too, to help promote the format.

Speaking of coverage, I have a Canon 7D you can borrow for streaming if you like -- I've never hooked that up before, but if someone knows how to work the equipment, you can borrow mine.

Thank you for the offer.  I hope to have my own equipment by the time this event rolls around.

I don't think that SCG would be interested, but if possible, I'd actually rather not involve them in this.  I respect what SCG has done as a business entity, but I want this to be done by the community, for the community.

[brokenbacon]

If this was in Jersey, New York, or CT, I would be in 100%. Having a BoM-like tournament in the US would be absolutely legendary, and I would like nothing more than to be a part of it. Count me in for any prize support at all, but my vote goes in the $50+ bracket - go hard or go home.

[A.-1.]

I voted for $50+, but I'd attend regardless of the format for entry fee/prize breakdown.

Of all the ideas thus far, I like preregistration discounts the most.

Also, DEFINITELY seek out the BOM organizers themselves and ask for their advice. Dudes have surely learned a ton over the years. Biggest question is, what's the functional relationship between prize support, distance people are willing to travel, and expected size given the average distance of competitors to the tournament. I bet there's a sweet spot there that you'd want to hit.

That sounds like a good idea, but BoM doesn't have to deal with a geographical area the size of the United States. Hopefully, they have some advice on how to draw in people that live 1,000+ miles away. I would expect that 99.9% of the attendees to this particular event would be coming from east of the Mississippi.

So if you are responding/voting in this thread and live an extremely long ways away from Jersey, please say so and specifically say why you would or would not be attending.

[cvarosky80]

I am all for this. Seeing that I have more of a chance at getting with Katie Holmes in the near future than getting to the Bazaar of Moxen anytime soon, I am THRILLED to see this idea being floated out there! I too voted for 50+, but would attend regardless of the entry fee. Only question I have is: Where do I sign up?

[Thecheese]

I voted for 50+. I live in nj so distance isn't an issue. If it wasn't in nj th furthest d be willing to travel by car for a bom sul vintage event would be 6 hrs.

A piece of power for the Highest placing non powered deck is a nice incentive.

Maybe a nice original smokestack painting also 

[TheWhiteDragon]

It depends where it's held. I voted $40 but if the my travel costs had to include a plane/hotel it rapidly becomes more worthwhile to just buy the cards I want outright.

It should be more about playing in the event than what you walk away with!

If that were true, would you pay $30 for a large tournament with no prize support at all and just bragging rights?

I voted $40 - good shot at prizes and a fair price value.

[Cruel Ultimatum]

It depends where it's held. I voted $40 but if the my travel costs had to include a plane/hotel it rapidly becomes more worthwhile to just buy the cards I want outright.

It should be more about playing in the event than what you walk away with!

If that were true, would you pay $30 for a large tournament with no prize support at all and just bragging rights?

They already have one of those, its called gencon.

[The Atog Lord]

I voted for $50+. If I can make it to this, the entry fee is the least of my costs.

[AmbivalentDuck]

I voted for $50+. If I can make it to this, the entry fee is the least of my costs.

The higher the expected value with airfare factored in, the more likely I am to attend.

[Solaran_X]

I voted for $50+ as well.

You should copy the BoM Vintage event as closely as you can, including the prizes for highest placing unPowered deck and highest placing budget deck.

[Tha Gunslinga]

I voted for $50+. If I can make it to this, the entry fee is the least of my costs.

That was exactly what I was going to post.  Just charge $50 and give away some baller prizes.  I will drag a ton of folks along with me.

[edit]The option to vote isn't coming up for me, for some reason.

[Commandant]

That was exactly what I was going to post.  Just charge $50 and give away some baller prizes.  I will drag a ton of folks along with me.

Ditto.