I have this odd ball cards name three wishes.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=3652

Basically with the removed cards. It say you may play them until your next upkeep. If played on my opponents turn does this mean I could pay and exiled cards of say the mox (artifact) variety on there turn? (when you wouldn't normally play it)

This wording is confusing to me. I was once told you can respond to a Phyrexian dreadnoughts sacrifice ability by activating a Mosswort bridge and playing another Phyrexian dreadnought in response (that was under the bridge via exile ability). Much less followed up by being told I could play it via mosswort on an opponents turn.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=139515

When dealing with such cards that say "you may play-" how are these best approached? Is what I am playing with such abilities not bound by its traditional timing of being played if just for the spell/ability with that wording?

Cerebral Assassin I believe was the title for the deck revolving around (skip this next part if you know what it is already)

goblin welder
bazaar
animate dead
sundering titan
Sharuum
possessed portal
mind slaver
platinum angel
etc

what I was wondering is if this deck is still viable in the current meta? does anyone even still play it or did it evolve into something else?

can you stifle the morph trigger? i would assume yes but just to be safe.

As everyone knows the traps cards have alternate casting costs. But if these traps are in the sideboard and the condition for there alternate casting cost occurs, would there be any complication to playing them by cunning wishing after the condition for the alternate casting has occured because the trap was in the sideboard rather than the your hand? i ask this because isn't the sideboard removed from the game? thus once the wish resolves it brings the card into the game and it wasn't in the game to (this is silly wording) witness the condition for the alternate cost.

what happens if your opponents wreckless shuffling of your deck damages the sleeves? (usually occurs when your deck is offered to be cut)

who does the judge make responsible in such situation?

whats the wording/rules that makes it so a spell fizzles when its target is given shroud in response to casting?

In a tournament today some one was trying to use jittes -1/-1 effects to kill a mishra factory already turned into a creature. with the two -1/-1 effects stacking on the factory the factories controller argued that he could replay the ability to make factory into 2/2 again to restore the factory after the effects of the first -1/-1 effects in an attempt to save it. Does mishra's factory retain -1/-1 regardless if its a creature or not?

even if its not just that situation what is -x/-x or +x/+x effects in relation ship to a permanent if its types are changed some how?
do they function like a point system in a similar fashion to damage or counters?

if the creature returned to play from either of these spells is killed while in the battlefield during the turn they came into play, does that negate the remove from game effect at the end of the turn the spell was cast?

I got a question about scapeshift interacting with...

(Oracle text: Sacrifice any number of lands. Search your library for that many land cards, put them onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle your library.)

valakut the molten pinnacle

(Oracle text: Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle enters the battlefield tapped.
Whenever a Mountain enters the battlefield under your control, if you control at least five other Mountains, you may have Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle deal 3 damage to target creature or player.
Tap: Add R to your mana pool)

for senario say lets say you have 7 lands coming into play 6 of which are mountains. Does the controller of scapeshift choose the order they come into play?

Is there a possible technicality that might make all the mountains trigger valakut 6 times?

(my thinking is valakut needs a condition to be meet for its ability and all these lands coming into play off the same spell would cause that "condition" to be checked first. Then the ability would trigger since come into play rules would be checked. As the conditions for the ability would of been meet while scapeshift is resolving.)

My opponent has dream halls in play and i want to bound/ determined. I only have force of will in my hand and a coatl in play. Can i discard force of will to play the bound side of bound/ determined? or Must i discard a green/black card to play bound?

I was curious, goblin game from planeshift reads-

Oracle text: Each player hides at least one item, then all players reveal them simultaneously. Each player loses life equal to the number of items he or she revealed. The player who revealed the fewest items then loses half his or her life, rounded up. If two or more players are tied for fewest, each loses half his or her life, rounded up.

in a tournament setting how should we "hide" items. Much less what are the "items" out of conviences would u suggest we hide? this all hinges on when the card is played in a tournament. Its description of what it does is very vague in many ways.

So its impossible for stifle cause it to be sacrificed in the process of countering the ability? If i'm reading this correctly.

They can function very similar at times but DS. Maybe I do need to consider bringing in more spheres and thorns into the deck. But I don't have the awesome mana acceleration of workshop (without over hauling the decks current design) to get around sphere of resistance.

I stated in another thread that I was trying bring a legacy deck concept into vintage with various format tweaks. A responder suggested i post my list in here.

everything that follows is my deck list copied and pasted.

I'm trying to bring in Dragon stompy. I have tried this at a pervious tournament. I didn't fare so well.

this was my build. (I kicked myself mid tournament as i forgot null rod)

4 tauren mauler
4 sting scourger
3 arc slogger
4 rakdos pit dragon
4 magus of the moon
2 gathan raiders
3 simian spirit guide

4 chalice of the void
3 thorn of amnethyst
1 trinisphere
2 sword of fire and ice
2 jitte
1 mox ruby
1 black lotus

3 seething song

2 blood moon

10 mountain
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors

My thinking with mauler was with moxes in the format hes gunna get big real fast.

Sting scourger was for an answer to Colossus

I'm not sure if Bloodmoon effects can still have a large impact on vintage but i figure it was worth including.

As in Legacy a first turn arc slogger can practically win the game so i kept him in.

Pit dragon and raiders seem good to keep in.

The only thing needing replaced was trinisphere. With it i'm sure the deck would of been golden if it would resolve. (despite being restricted.) So i opted for thorn of amnithyst thinking it would hurt opponents more than me. In some ways that is true.

The deck suffers from (and did) the same problems it has in legacy, like lack of card draw and if your main beater you drop is removed, you run out of gas real fast so to speak.

I haven't vested much though into mox monkey as he costs one and get countered by chalice 1, thus a dead draw. Null rod seems a better more rounded inclusion.

One of the hard match ups is Oath, I actaully mulled to 4 looking for blood moon to as my only available answer, If anyone has a better answer for a all red deck to use i'm all ears.

But thats what I've been alluding to in my posts. It fits the idea I refer to of Dropping a large creature to beat with, then supporting it with disruption. It seems strong to me but If its going to actaully achieve any worthwhile results i need input from people who have been more active in vintage than I have in the last year.

I gotta necro this thread as I got questions about dark depths triggered ability.

What i've heard through word of mouth (these mouths aren't 100% reliable) that the 20/20 trigger ability on Dark depths is sudo immune to stifle. That the trigger ability automatically triggers again after being stifled because all the counters are removed. Is this true it sort of unstiflable?

Second question is the triggered ability and wasteland. can you respond to the trigger and wasteland it before the sacrifice would occur? (my guts telling me no as it sacrifices to trigger thus nothing for wastland to target.) Though it sacrifices doesn't the trigger check the counters before the sacrifice leaving a window of oppportunity to wasteland it?

I'm trying to bring in Dragon stompy. I have tried this at a pervious tournament. I didn't fare so well.

this was my build. (I kicked myself mid tournament as i forgot null rod)

4 tauren mauler
4 sting scourger
3 arc slogger
4 rakdos pit dragon
4 magus of the moon
2 gathan raiders
3 simian spirit guide

4 chalice of the void
3 thorn of amnethyst
1 trinisphere
2 sword of fire and ice
2 jitte
1 mox ruby
1 black lotus

3 seething song

2 blood moon

10 mountain
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors

My thinking with mauler was with all the moxes if i go first hes gunna get big real fast.

Sting scourger was for Colossus

I'm not sure if Bloodmoon effects can still have a large impact on vintage but i figure it was worth including.

As in Legacy a first turn arc slogger can practically win the game so i kept him in.

Pit dragon and raiders seem good to keep in.

The only thing needing replaced was trinisphere. With it i'm sure the deck would of been golden if it would resolve. (despite being restricted.) So i opted for thorn of amnithyst thinking it would hurt opponents more than me. In some ways that is true.

The deck suffers from (and did) the same problems it has in legacy, like lack of card draw and if your main beater you drop is removed, you run out of gas real fast so to speak.

I haven't vested much though into mox monkey as he costs one and i think him to be cut out by chalice 1, thus a dead draw. Null rod seems a better more rounded inclusion.

One of the hard match ups is Oath, I actaully mulled to 4 looking for blood moon to as my only available answer, If anyone has a better answer for a all red deck to use i'm all ears.

But thats what I've been alluding to in my posts. It fits the idea I refer to of Dropping a large creature to beat with, then supporting it with disruption. It seems strong to me but If its going to actaully achieve any worthwhile results i need input from people who have been more active in vintage than I have in the last year.

Say i have a land card in hand to pay the retrace cost of flame jab but only mana avalible is from lion's eye diamond. does lion's eye diamonds discard your hand activation cost make it impossible to play retrace costs with lion's eye diamond mana?

its not that its a crazy secret but its basically a legacy stompy deck. if that illustrates my plot better. They're not as well supported as fish but they do have disrupting support to back up the big critters they drop. besides Dk i think several control decks I've seen in the vintage format leave themselves wide open, expecting the games to end quickly.

the deck uses chalice of the void, sphere of resistance and null rod as its main means of creature support. chalice is the main work horse in legacy but in vintage its best counter setting i'm not sure of yet. legacy u just go chalice 1 to stop swords and various other 1 cost removal, then rely on anything from equipment to force of will to catch any other removal. In vintage i'm not sure what the best setting is as for 0 stops the p9. however you packing 1 mana removal as well. so going chalice 0 for a large slow down in first second turn isn't appearing to be the most optimal. chalice 1 looks a little more appealing as it stops swords and a few other cards but not as much as in legacy. Thats one of the more complicated issues that i'm uncertain of in my deck.

Hi i've been unable to play vintage for a while, and in its place i played legacy which has tainted my thinking some what. I have a tournament coming up and i wanted to try and bring a fast aggro legacy deck into this tournament. But what it hinges on is the idea that vintage decks can be troubled by a first turn large creature. (something to the effect how turn 1 phyrexian negator could decide games some times. least back when negator was awesome.)

Last vintage tournament i played at combo decks using time vault and voltic key were very dominate. I kinda expect the same at this next tournament and i think these decks might be troubled by turn 1 large creatures if there supported with enough disruption. I want to know if decks running for such a theme are still compeditive in vintage? (i'm not using phyrexian negator, it just examplifies what i'm trying to convey best.)

i am curious how the card mindbreak trap works with spells that make copies and works on copies themselves.

Mindbreak trap

Card type: Instant

Casting cost: 2

Card text: If an opponent cast three or more spells this turn, you may pay 0 rather than pay Mindbreak Trap's mana cost.
Exile any number of target spells.

what i want to know is can that alternative casting cost be triggered by copies made from either replicate or storm, or even i guess miari.  (ex. say they cast shatter storm replicating it 4 times.)

second do copies of spells count as "spells". other cards have a problems interacting with copies because in some instances copies don't count as "spells"

my current assumption is yes it can exile any spell copies as long as they are on the stack with this card and spell copies will trigger the alternate casting cost. but i just want to make certain.

wow that crazy. lot of good information there. Only reminds me how you can't look at this game through linear thinking.

I need help, I'm in an argument with a couple people who claim you can get progenitus into the graveyard with a series of spells, muchless claiming the graveyard can be stifled.

My understanding is progenitus's shuffle into library ability is a replacement ability (or effect). An if i remember right these cannot be stifled.

But what i got into an argument over was if progen is out and you sudden spoils the player with progenitus then say cast snakeform on the progenitus the layers of these two spells would put progenitus into the graveyard if it were to die through any means. I pretty sure they are wrong as these spells only effect progenitus as it is in the battlefield but its hard for me to win an argument over this because i don't know the name of the zones it passes through after leaving the battle field and headed to the graveyard. It may not even be zone but basic game rule checks that i don't know the name of.

If you could clear some of that up for my i greatly appriciate it.

i was starting to look into licids for fun and i was wondering what happens when the creature it enchants dies? does the licid become a creature again as it has nothing to enchant anymore? Or must its ending effect be paid to save it from the yard?


Dominating Licid

Oracle text: 1UU, Tap: Dominating Licid loses this ability and becomes an Aura enchantment with enchant creature. Attach it to target creature. You may pay U to end this effect.
You control enchanted creature.

also could u explain all the phases that the licids go through as they go from creature to enchant creature? I feel its similar to the changes a mishra factory goes through when activated.

i would definity try to make it and play with an unpowered deck, Theres a few legacy concepts i've been working on with vintage's cards added and i think they could put up a decent challenge against a few powered decks. (some are just roll over and die match ups of course)

not very good in the vintage card department but anycraze.com is a decent play to buy cards

a deck i'm playing has me discarding land cards and lightning storm caught my attention but i don't understand the second half of what it does.


Oracle text: Lightning Storm deals X damage to target creature or player, where X is 3 plus the number of charge counters on it.
Discard a land card: Put two charge counters on Lightning Storm. You may choose a new target for it. Any player may activate this ability but only if Lightning Storm is on the stack.
 

when it says choose a new target is it making an additional targets?  Or is lightning storm going to hit just 1 target and based on who discarded last gets to choose that one target?

where we suppose to park for this thing? that little strip of spots next to your store will be ticket heaven for the meter maids. wouldn't the neighborhood parking get messy?

i wanted to double check what happens to dark depths (land) when blood moon or magus of the moon are in the battlefield.

dark depths-

legendary snow land

Oracle text: Dark Depths enters the battlefield with ten ice counters on it.
3: Remove an ice counter from Dark Depths.
When Dark Depths has no ice counters on it, sacrifice it. If you do, put an indestructible legendary 20/20 black Avatar creature token with flying named Marit Lage onto the battlefield.

(both blood and magus make non basics lands into mountains as almost everyone knows them by name.)

questions.

i'm sure that if i play dark depths with either magus or blood in play its enter the battlefield ability with the counters will go off. (i really hope i'm wrong! : ) ) so you would have a mountain with 10 ice counters on it correct?

the legendary and snow types on the card are confusing me some what. I know both magus and blood make artifact lands into artifact mountains. would dark depths be a legendary mountain and to boot a snow mountain?

if say i found some trickery and was able to prevent dark depths from entering the battlefield with those ice counters would the triggered ability automatically go off or would i have to use that remove ice counters ability to cause the trigger to go off? what i'm saying is does the marit lage ability only go off after the process of attempting to remove the counters thru what ever counter removing "means" are employed"

is it impossible to misdirect browbeat due to the order of its processes?

browbeat says "unless a player has browbeat deal them 5 damage, target player draws 3 cards."

my understanding is the whole underlined part doesn't go into effect until resolution.

am i missing something where you would have to determine the target upon casting browbeat or can the target be chosen on resolution?

unlike the rank and file spell it has preconditions written before its targeting process. i guess what i am asking is targeting for the "target player draws 3 cards" determined before you go into the 5 damage option of the spell?

i was curious if anyone might know if RIW hobbies was doing another one of there power 9 tournaments for july.