Black Stax (OR the viability of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth)

[brianpk80]

Although my artifact/Bob structure is identical to Steve's I am not so sure about the Manabase.

I certainly think you want/need Cabal Pit to deal with stupid creatures.

Good call.  3 Riftstone Portals, Mox Pearl, and Black Lotus don't strike me as a solid enough White foundation for a maindeck Balance either.  Perhaps a fetchland or two + Scrubland could substitute for some Portals.  Even with so few fetch targets, if the idea is to play Urborg and dump Portals into the graveyard, then Polluted Delta/Bloodstained Mire themselves could produce mana after their utility expires. 

-BPK

[WhiteWolf]

@ Yespuhyrens list : Relying on a single win-condition like Mishra’s Factory could be dangerous with Extirpate looming at the horizon. I do however like your suggestion of the Chains in the maindeck and the Leylines in the sideboard. Those are both nice, non-artifact locks. Defense Grid is also something I thought about to take the place of Sphere of Resistance (maindeck) because it doesn’t screw with Nether Void and Braids. I’m also of the opinion that you need some form of draw (Confidant) and/or filtering (Bazaar).

@ Smmenens list: 4 Urborg and 3 Riftstone Portals seem a little like overkill, especially because the deck doesn’t take advantage of Nether Void (and Braids). I like the Pithing Needle however. You could tutor it up in the all kind of situations (Bazaar, Salvagers, Welder, … ). I’m also glad to see Null Rod. I almost can’t imagine playing a Stax list with at least three of those. I believe it’s the best lock piece available. Like already mentioned the Cabal Pits seem pretty necessary. They deliver the Black mana AND take care of annoying critters like Welder, Confidant, Mages, … in the same uncounterable way Barbarian Ring does.

I also get the feeling that Extirpate could really shine in this deck.

On the one hand, Extirpate is very strong but on the other hand it would be nice to keep the 1 cc cards to a minimum. The fact that this deck doesn’t play Welders and probably only has Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal, Darkblast and Sol Ring at the 1 cc slot makes it easier than in most Stax decks to put a Chalice at 1 wich is a strong play. I’ve put Extirpate in the sideboard at the moment.

If I were running That tomb, I would definatly run Tanglewire + Spreading Algae.

Spreading Algae is cool but seems a bit clunky. For the same cc and on-color I’d rather tutor for Strip Mine and kill a land each turn that way (when CoW is out of course). Also cutting Chalice below 4 isn’t an option.

That and pay for  energy flux like effects is kinda sweet.

I didn’t even thought about the usefulness of The Tomb concerning the payment of Energy Flux and Kataki. Very nice …


People seem to agree on this thread that Nether Void is (one of) the main effect being made possible by Urborg. However, how do you people think about Braids, Cabal Minion? I don’t think it should be dismissed so quick. It has a lot of advantages over Smokestack: non-artifact status, one turn quicker online, does damage, … I understand that Smokestack has its own advantages of course, like being able to put the counters on more than 1. I wouldn't go below 4 Smokestacks when adding Braids. 4 + 2 seems fine.

I haven’t done any real testing at the moment because I hadn’t had the time or opportunity to meet up with my friends yet, only two-fisted testing. In that limited testing the following conclusions were made:

-   Nether Void is of course very powerful. Throwing it down when you have a slight advantage is almost always a game-win. Thanks to Shops and Tomb it doesn’t bother your own actions. The fact that it’s harder to bounce is very nice.
-   Factorys seem even better in this deck than in other Stax lists because they provide early defense and are great win-conditions under the Void.
-   Braids is very nice to throw down right after or before a Void. She seals the deal. Two copies seem enough.
-   Cabal Pit seems needed, both as black sources and defense.
-   The tutors are very nice to fetch Trinisphere and Strip Mine. An advantage over other mono-colored Stax decks (aka UbaStax and MUD)
-   Darkblast hasn’t been used much in testing. Cabal Pit and Factorys are a nice defense already and Chalice at 1 is very powerful.
-   …

WhiteWolf

[yespuhyren]

I'm really in love with tomb of yawgmoth.  Draws like

T1 - Workshop -> Chalice/Crucible/Smokestack/Null Rod etc etc
T2 - Tomb, Tap Tomb and workshop for BLACK play Confidant/Chains

[ashiXIII]

I'm really in love with tomb of yawgmoth.  Draws like

T1 - Workshop -> Chalice/Crucible/Smokestack/Null Rod etc etc
T2 - Tomb, Tap Tomb and workshop for BLACK play Confidant/Chains

Apparently this deck just gets beaten by Wizard Oppo, though.

[yespuhyren]

Well lets not forget this is how it went

G1 - I win
G2 - I get 3 moxes, land, nether void, you have no turn 1 play, but you have force and null rod
G3 - i go through 20 cards and draw the following threats - 1x Confidant, 1x Tangle Wire, 1x Nether Void.  That would mean 17 lands/mana sources.  Out of 26. 

I hardly look at this as a loss...

[WhiteWolf]

I'm really in love with tomb of yawgmoth.

I have been digging into cardlists to see if there any other viable black lock/utility pieces. I admit these aren't all useful but it seems interesting to at least take a look at them:

Discard

- Bottomless Pit: This was used in old Pox lists (together with Ensnaring Bridge). It doesn't influence you much (Bazaar) but could be good against control players.

- Words of Waste: Again, this has nice synergy with Bazaar. Could be crippling against control decks.

Draw

- Necropotence: In this deck it's easy to get rid of with Smokestack/Braids so you could use it as an "Ancestral-for-7" to replenish your hand.

- Phyrexian Arena: This could be played as Confidants 5-8. Remember, Enchantment-hate is scarce in Vintage.

Critter-kill

- Engineered Plague: Put it on Goblins, Wizards, Spirits, ...

- Plague Spitter: Nice against EtW Goblins, Welder, Kataki, Spirit Tokens, ... and a win-condition.

- Infernal Harvest: Worse than the above two but has some "synergy" with Bazaar in that you can filter away the returned lands.

Lock

- Contamination: Strong lock piece but with a difficult upkeep. Maybe with a recurring Factory. Very iffy.

- Desolation: Again, very iffy but a possibility.

Again, most of the above cards aren't probably worth it but I think a lot of cards deserve a second look in the vein of Urborg. And not only in black: in 5cStax things like In the Eye of Chaos, Propaganda, Rule of Law, ... have become easier to cast in Stax decks.

Urborg also makes non-mana lands like Maze and Tabernacle better, wich were already gaining popularity in Stax.

WhiteWolf

[o uncola o]

I really like the idea but have not really had the opportunity to test it in a competitive environment.  However, I think that chains is not so much a lock component as people who have not had the chance to really test it would believe.  It can be strong in certain match-ups such as pitch-long or gifts variants, but the stax player would be better off actually having pieces capable of establishing a lock in those slots.  Chains can hamper your opponents strategy and do some other neat tricks, but I personally would rather play disruption such as duress or another card that can pull the cards capable of disrupting my lick from my opponents hand or some threat that my opponent would be forced to deal with immediately.  If you throw down a threat after the nether void or trinisphere, they have only a short while to deal with it and really have to pull the right cards.  This gives you more time to take a piss between rounds and/or makes it easier to win because you do not have to hold the lock down for as long.  Classics like juggernaut are not really out of the picture IMHO.

[wethepeople]

Has anyone thought of an Aggro Shop version of this? Braids, + Bob, and possibly stuff like Trike and big Jugz can be interesting. It even gives you opportunity to cast Night Of Soul's Betrayal to cream the mirror and those ETW tokens.

Actually, that crossed my mind right when I first read Tomb of Yawgmoth, I am going to try it out and atleast create a bit of a skeleton to start off from, because the first few drafts are bound to be fairly poor.

The problem I see with Workshop decks like that are the great amount of Drain decks that I have been facing lately. It may be great in a metagame unlike my own, but if I were to try it, what would one include to improve the Drain matchup?

After playing Workshop Aggro for quite some time, I got sick of seeing my Juggernaught get Drained so my opp. uses my four mana to go completely broken on their next turn. Although, that also requires me to not aknowledge the {UU} untapped for Mana Drain, which is basically just asking for it.

[yespuhyren]

Sideboard 4 Defense grid

But what does Shop aggro gain from Urborg?  It doesn't get any benefits.  Stax gets things like braids and Nether Void, and makes null rod even better.  Shop aggro plays 5c and can't run Nether Void and Braids...it has no use.

[WhiteWolf]

Sideboard 4 Defense grid

Indeed, I used to play them in my MUD sideboard for a while and when you are able to resolve one of those against control (through baiting and such  ) you can enjoy some counter-free turns to lock them down. Because I'm looking at them for the Black Stax sideboard, I want to ask how they're performing for you?

But what does Shop aggro gain from Urborg?  It doesn't get any benefits.  Stax gets things like braids and Nether Void, and makes null rod even better.  Shop aggro plays 5c and can't run Nether Void and Braids...it has no use.

I remember a thread a while ago from MaxxMatt in wich he proposed a WorkshopAggro deck with Negators, Confidants, ... (http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=31415.0). I guess that that deck could benefit from Urborg, although i find that whole concept a little weird.

WhiteWolf

[ashiXIII]

Well lets not forget this is how it went

G1 - I win
G2 - I get 3 moxes, land, nether void, you have no turn 1 play, but you have force and null rod
G3 - i go through 20 cards and draw the following threats - 1x Confidant, 1x Tangle Wire, 1x Nether Void.  That would mean 17 lands/mana sources.  Out of 26. 

I hardly look at this as a loss...

I'm only playing. No need to get defensive. 

[yespuhyren]

Sorry I misread the meaning behind this     God damn wizards  :lol:

Still trying to get a build i like...its hard...Nether Void is amazing.  I just need to make the deck make me happy with the draws.

[yespuhyren]

I got it so far.  I really really like this list and its been testing well.  Vroman and I played and I won all 3 matches vs CS, though there have been minor changes made since our match.  The changes were

+1 Factory
+1 Maze of Ith
+1 Mana Vault
+2 Plague Spitter
+1 Thrashing Wumpus

-4 Sphere of Resistance
-1 Swamp
-1 Imperial Seal

Here is the current list

// Lands
    4  Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4  Mishra's Workshop
    3  Wasteland
    1  Strip Mine
    1  Tolarian Academy
    2  Mishra's Factory
    3  Cabal Pit
    4  Bazaar of Baghdad
    1  Tomb of Urami
    1  Maze of Ith

// Creatures
    2 Plague Spitter
    1 Thrashing Wumpus

// Spells
    1  Mana Crypt
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Sol Ring
    1  Mana Vault

    4  Chalice of the Void
    4  Null Rod
    4  Smokestack
    4  Crucible of Worlds
    1  Trinisphere

    4  Nether Void
    1  Darkblast
    1  Demonic Tutor
    1  Vampiric Tutor

// Sideboard
SB: 3  Darkblast
SB: 4  Leyline of the Void
SB: 3  Maze of Ith
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4  Jester's Cap

[Sean Ryan]

It seems like you are overpreparing for Slaver and Fish, at the cost of hampering your Giftz/Storm match.  Plague Spitters and Thrashing Wumpus over Dark Confidant doesn't seem right when you already have the Cabal Pits and tutors for Darkblast/P.Needle.  Perhaps you could say why you are maindecking these "hate" cards.

Cutting SoR for NetherVoid seems risky.  Obviously the Void is Brutal if it sticks, but SoR is way more consistent as a turn 1 play.  Even with tomb of Urborg it seems like Void is going to be uncastable to often and is a juicy Drain target to boot.

Thanks
Sean

[yespuhyren]

Storm has not posed any problems without SOR, and SOR doesn't pose that much of a problem for Gifts as they can just cast rebuild and win the game.  Of course it is a juicy target, everything that costs 4 is.  Smokestack is juicy, Crucible is Juicy, Chalice@2 is juicy, etc.  If this resolves, it generally makes it very difficult for the opponent to win the game.  It is never that difficult to cast, with lots of mana in this deck, and 4 Urborgs

The main reason I'm playing the ridiculous amount of fish hate is cause my meta is mostly fish.  It is strictly metagaming.  Last tourney I played 4 random aggro in 6 rounds. 

Another change I"ve made to the deck for another win condition:

-1 Cabal Pit
+1 Tomb of Urami

For a NON-fish meta, I would do the following

-2 Plague Spitter
-1 Wumpus

+3 Resistorb

[vroman]

I got it so far.  I really really like this list and its been testing well.  Vroman and I played and I won all 3 matches vs CS, though there have been minor changes made since our match.  The changes were

you played me online and I was running slaver? that wasnt me.

[wethepeople]

I got it so far.  I really really like this list and its been testing well.  Vroman and I played and I won all 3 matches vs CS, though there have been minor changes made since our match.  The changes were

you played me online and I was running slaver? that wasnt me.

Yeah, I apparently played you also, running the same deck on MWS, hence the PM.

Yesuhyren, aren't four Tombs [of Yawgmoth] MD too many?

EDIT: Clarified which Tomb I was refering to.

[yespuhyren]

I'm sort of torn now and I'm thinking of going to 3.  I have been having issues where I would get 2 of them and no bazaar.  The other thing is the fact that I want to hit 1 every game.  I'm thinking of going down to 3.  Tomb of Urami is awesome.  Definitely staying in, possibly as a 2-of by adding 1 and taking out a Tomb.

[WhiteWolf]

I'm sort of torn now and I'm thinking of going to 3.  I have been having issues where I would get 2 of them and no bazaar.  The other thing is the fact that I want to hit 1 every game.  I'm thinking of going down to 3.  Tomb of Urami is awesome.  Definitely staying in, possibly as a 2-of by adding 1 and taking out a Tomb.

I would keep 4 Urborgs, especialy when you play Bazaar to filter them away. Extras can also be fed to Smokestack (or Braids). Remember, it's very good to have it down. Tomb of Urami is something I thougt about too but didn't test out just yet. I'm happy to hear it works. Saccing all your lands isn't a problem?

I like the Trashing Wumpus. A very nice solution to a lot of problems and win-condition that you can tutor for. Plague Spitters are something I thought about for the sideboard (seeing that I play Confidants). However, I'm using Engineered Plagues at the moment.

I cut Spheres rather early in testing. They make casting Void and Braids harder and Void is just better (also because it's not an artifact!). I would use Defense Grids above Spheres in this deck because those don't mess with your own plans.

I too don't have much problems in casting Void, especially with 4 Urborgs.

My current testing list looks like this:

Braids & Void Stax

4 Dark Confidant
2 Braids, Cabal Minion

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Null Rod
4 Crucible of Worlds
1 Trinisphere
4 Smokestack
3 Nether Void

1 Imperial Seal
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor

1 Necropotence

1 Darkblast
1 Engineered Plague

4 Cabal Pit
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Mishra’s Workshop
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

Sideboard

4 Maze of Ith
2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Extirpate
1 Engineered Plague
4 Leyline of the Void

Engineered Plague is nice against all those Goblin tokens running around and a "lock" against opposing Welders, Lions, Kataki's, ... Maybe Plague Spitter is better because it is a win-condition also. The problem is Spitter doesn't play well with Confidant. Necropotence is very easy to get rid of with Smokeys/Braids and act as a sort of "draw-7" hand refiller.

WhiteWolf

[yespuhyren]

Tomb of Urami doesn't have that big of a drawback depending on when you use it, but usually you lose 2-3 lands, but use it when the game is looking locked away.  If you get out a void and opponent won't concede, this is great, and its also a secondary win condition if something should happen to all of the factories.

[Magnus76]

Hi,
This is my first post. I am a big fan of UbaStax and have found it to be very flexible. I also like the idea to include the new legendary land, Urborg, because the possibility of including Nether Void. Here is my current list (with explanations below):

3 Mountain
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Rishadan Port
3 Barbarian Ring
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
1 Strip Mine
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Tolarian Academy
21 Lands

4 Crucible of Worlds
3 Null Rod
4 Tangle Wire
4 Smokestack
3 Uba Mask
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Welder
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Duplicant
1 Trinisphere
2 Nether Void
5 Moxes
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lotus

What I want to combine is the stability and consistency of Uba with the possibility of an, almost automatic, win with Nether Void. Here is a comment on the card choices:

Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Besides that it makes Nether Void possible it also makes Energy Flux less dangerous.

Mountain (instead of Badlands)
Makes the inclusion of Solemn possible and powerful, which, in turn, enhances the use of Welder -> better overall synergy.

Rishadan Port
Awesome against drain decks, I have won several matches because of Port. Far better than Wasteland IMO. Good synergy with Nether Void.

Crucible
Becomes even more important in this build, especially together with Bazaar, since the mana base is weaker than in monoR-Uba. You need the colored mana, and Bazaar-Crucible helps you to find it.

Tangle Wire
Tangle has, IMO, climbed to one of the most important lock pieces because of Nether Void. It is still a good "bait" to Mana Drains in order to play something more important. It provides a necessary breather against first-turn-Colossus, which is a very common play in my Meta (in Sweden, all players apparently run at least 4 Tinker...). Perhaps this will change in time, though.

Uba Mask
The synergy with Welder and Bazaar is awesome and well known. But together with Nether Void, Tangle and Port, it becomes truly ridiculous. I think Uba Mask is the most aggressive card in the deck, perhaps as a 4-of. A lot of players (in Sweden) have not yet understood this card, which makes the surprise an important factor.

Smokestack
I feel that this card is the most uncertain, but at the same time also the most general. It is good against random decks (RG-beats, weenie decks etc.) and seals the game many times, but can also be equally bad in other games (Stifle, bounce) because of its slow speed.

Duplicant and Solemn
Excellent synergy with Welder and Bazaar. Good against Fish, Beats. Duplicant (or other removal) is also quite necessary in my meta due to the number of Colossuses.

Cards that were not included
Wasteland, seems to have had its time. It is more important to keep your own lands on the table (due to Nether Void) while still limiting your opponents plays. This is why I choose Port instead of Waste.
Factory, really powerful card and should possibly be fitted in the list somehow. I have not yet figured out how, though. The mana base probably already needs some adjustment to be more consistent, which makes the possibility to include Factory even harder.
Demonic, Vampiric, Imp. Seal, neither one feels fast enough or possible to play with the limited amount of black mana in the deck. Due to the heavy amount of locks, tutors usually aren't needed. The obvious use (to find Strip Mine) is less important because the goal is always to get Nether Void out. Nether Void fits well in the game philosophy of the deck, while tutors usually give you a possible power play during your NEXT turn. Often, this simply is not fast enough, I rather play a less powerful lock already THIS turn.

The weakness I felt when trying the Mono-B version was the decreased power (due to lack of Welder and Uba) in my old favourite card: Bazaar. The deck also showed disability to handle early Colossus (no Tangle or Duplicant). I really think that Balance should be in there somewhere, though I do not miss it all that much in this RB-version. I also felt that the inclusion of Confidant limits the choices of locks and utility (like Duplicant, Uba Mask and Sundering Titan), due to the damage it inflicts on yourself. Braids is very interesting but is perhaps impossible to have in any deck that is not MonoB. The MonoB version has lost in consistency but has unfortunately not gained the insane plays with its tutors (lack of Balance and Tinker).

I apologize for my bad English but I hope that most of it was understandable.

[WhiteWolf]

@ Magnus76: I really like your deklist. I was figuring out how to incorporate (enough copies of) Urborg in B/R stax but you seem to have it correct. I like the inclusion of Rishadan Port. I used to play those in my Winter Orb MUD deck and really liked their ability to tap down basic land. I have to try those again (probably a 2/2 split between Port and Wasteland. Don't you ever miss having a few Wastelands to take care of opposing Shops, Bazaars, ... ? And did only 2 Nether Voids suffice in testing? I would rather play 3, especially because you can't recur them with Welder.

I have been thinking some more about MonoBlack Stax and have been thinking a lot about replacing Null Rod with Powder Keg a.k.a. Wrath of Moxen (actually not just in this deck but some other stax decks too). Here's a comparison:

Null Rod:

1) never gives your opponent the chance to use his artifact mana
2) stops all artifact mana
3) disables the Moxen but they can still be sacced to Smokestack or tapped to Tangle Wire

Powder Keg:

1) gives your opponent the chance to use his artifact mana at least once
2) kills Moxen @ 0, kills Sol Ring and Mana Vault @ 1, not everything at once
3) wipes artifact mana clean so Smokestack and Braids (and Tangle Wire in other Stax decks) can do their thing more efficienly (killing lands)
4) kills annoying critters and artifacts like Welder, Fishes, Divining Top, Vial, ...
5) is turned off by Null Rod

Reason 1) seems to speak the most for Null Rod while reason 4) and especially 3) are very useful for Keg. Reason 5) (viability to Null Rod) isn't the worst thing. Against the decks that play Null Rod, like Fish and Stax your own Null Rods aren't that great after all and Keg seems better in those match-ups.

This is all theory and I think Null Rod is one of the best lock-pieces around but I'm still going to test it. Here's a new proposed list:

Black Market

4 Dark Confidant
2 Braids, Cabal Minion

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Powder Keg
4 Crucible of Worlds
1 Trinisphere
4 Smokestack
3 Nether Void

1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor

4 Bazaar of Baghdad

1 Darkblast

4 Cabal Pit
4 Mishra’s Workshop
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Rishadan Port
2 Wasteland
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Tomb of Urami
1 Strip Mine
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring

Sideboard

4 Maze of Ith
2 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Darkblast
4 Defense Grid
4 Leyline of the Void

What do you think about the list and especially about the theory behind Powder Keg?

[Kotch]

You forgot to say that Powder Keg is not very good with your Chalices of the Void...
Anyway, I've been testing Keg since a while and I'm quite satisfied with it (at least in MUD). It can also deal with the opponent's Chalice of the Void @0 and with Orchard's tokens. In builds supporting Sphere of Resistance, it is also very good because the opponent will quickly play his moxen, fearing Chalice or needing mana under Sphere of Resistance. Cracking Powder Keg the turn after is really amazing!

[WhiteWolf]

You forgot to say that Powder Keg is not very good with your Chalices of the Void...

I realize that but forgot to mention it. Thanks!

Another thing is that it takes care of Goblin Warrens tokens.

Could you elaborate some more on your experiences with Powder Keg, especially in the different match-ups?

I would love to see your MUD list because I really dig those kind of decks. Would you mind sending it to me or posting it in the (Rod) MUD thread?

WhiteWolf

[EndBringer_XX]

@ WhiteWolf Great thread lot of content
@ WhiteWolf, Magnus76, yespuhyren great proposed lists gentlemen think its a matter of time before something like this t8's somewhere. What a exciting time to be a stax/shop player. It would appear between Tomb of Yawgmoth and Extirpate we may actually have some toys of our own for a change.

Guys I have a question, sorry its not completely on topic. I can't recall the name but theres a black Legendary Land that allows you to put a creature back on top of your library any one try this yet? Considering we don't have welder in mono black lists what about this to supplement re-using our resources as well has decent synergy with Bazaar of Baghdad. I am proposing it as a possible 1 of, especially if a variant list similar to these ran a little more creatures. What do ya think ?

P.S. I believe some 1 already mentioned this. But I think Yawgmoth's Will is a definte consideration. If we were to devlop a list somewhat balanced between spells and permants. Yawgmoth's Will would shine should some 1 actually pull off a viability list.

[yespuhyren]

The thing is, Yawgmoth's Will just doesn't do that much, and the land you were talking about is Volrath's Stronghold.  I did consider and look at it, but lets remember that there aren't that many creatures and the land will be fighting for slots already as is.

[Bill Copes]

I've been playing B/W stax /shop aggro for about 3 months to some success (Top 8 and Top 4 split at myriad games).  I was playing this type of deck before Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth was made available -- I had used 4 gemstone mine and 2 city of brass to smooth out the manabase.  Those have since been replaced by 2 urborg, 2 fetches and 2 basics.

I just made a top 4 split at myriad games with this list:

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Sphere of Resistance
3 Smokestack
3 Null Rod
1 Trinisphere

4 Dark Confidant
3 Juggernaut
1 Grid Monitor
1 Duplicant

4 Duress
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Darkblast

1 Balance
1 Enlightened Tutor

1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire

4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
4 Scrubland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Rashidan Port

SB----------------------------
3 Orb of Dreams
3 Jester's Cap
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Seal of Cleansing
2 Caltrops
1 Triskelion

I guess the odd choices here are the maindeck grid monitor and the caltrops.  The caltrops were garbage during the last myriad tournament and they are being replaced by good cards.  The Grid Monitor, however was really good in the aggro matchup (against TWMA).  The one monitor is included because he does one thing that juggernaut can't -- BLOCK.  You'd be surprised how relevant that can be sometimes.  The drawback (not being able to cast creature spells) isn't that harsh -- i never usually commit to more than one big creature on the board, and I usually cast a confidant first.

I'm very curious to try a braids or two, perhaps in the sideboard.

Another card that was in the deck previously was Suppression Field.  I might move them back to the sideboard as well.  They were key in defeating bazaar based decks and they make a lot of your opponents cards really bad (fetch lands, mainly).  Starting off with land, mox, chalice for 0 and suppression field was really crippling for many opponents.

Let me know what you think.  I'm looking forward to any feedback.

[yespuhyren]

Considering the only cards in your deck that Suppression Field affects is Wasteland and Port, and with the absence of Bazaar, why not just make the following changes.   You lose the aggro but you create an extremely potent stax lock.

-2 Fetch
+2 Shockland

-4 Duress
-3 Juggernaut
-1 Grid Monitor

+3 Chains of Mephistopheles
+3 Suppression Field
+1 Smokestack
+1 Null Rod (you barely play any artifacts, why not)

[Bill Copes]

I tried playing chains maindeck at waterbury -- they ended up being subpar, even when played on the first turn.  If your opponent is competent, then it doesn't really mess up their game plan at all.  It's an annoyance, but doesn't really pull its own weight.  I understand that under certain circumstances the card can be great, but in my (very limited) experience, it wasn't effective in applying pressure to force a win.  I really like duress in this place instead -- it steals counters, or if your opponent is baiting you into playing more locks into a rebuild / shattering spree, you can steal that and make them wish they weren't playing so greedily.

I like 3 null rods because having dead copies in your hand is horrible, at least in my experience.  I like them much better when you draw into one later (around turn 3), being able to use your accelerants during the first two turns to drop other lock pieces  and men.

Although i've done it before, trying to beat down for 20 on the back of confidant is terrifying -- especially if you're beyond 10 turns deep in the game.  I know juggernauts aren't the greatest creature, but they end the game in 3-4 turns.  Constricting your opponent into an empty / useless board isn't always a possibility, especially if they get a busted opening.  Being able to shore up a quick victory is sometimes better than trying to hurt their board.

Shocklands are a wonderful idea.  I was contemplating removing one Scrubland for 1 shock land, just to give me some more resiliency to extirpate.  Luckily, it didn't end up being an issue at myriad -- i was extirpated twice . . . once for shops (1 was already in play) and a second time for wastelands (they were disappointed to find only 1 more in the deck)

I really, really wish I had room for smokestack #4.  I'm already being a terrible player by playing 61 cards.  It's hard to cut anything in favor of it.

I have a really horrible question.  Does anyone think that Planar Collapse would be a viable card for the sideboard?  It cleans up goblin tokens, piledrivers, fish creatures, and welders, in the case of stax opponents who over commit their board.  It's also removal that's fetchable via enlightened tutor.  I'm just wondering if anybody else ever thought of it -- sometimes janky cards are hot.

[WhiteWolf]

I have a question concerning the monoblack builds. In testing the deck proves that it can be strong against Control and Combo (Nether Void, Chalice, ... ) and Aggro (Pit, Smokestack, Darkblast, ... ) but it seems to have troubles against (Uba)Stax. In a few games against a friend of mine with 5cUbaStax I learned that Welders weren't really the problem due to Pit, Blast and Chalice @ 1. Every game I lost it was due to a ramped Smokestack. Het could lay more permanents and clear my board. In other words, this deck needs something to deal with artifacts like other Stax decks have Heretic, Seal, ...

At this moment, the best I can think of is Gate to Phyrexia (in 'combo' with Factory/CoW and Confidant). Do you people have any other options to fight the Stax match-up?

WhiteWolf