[report] Hey, who let in all these Elephants? A First Place Report.

[The Atog Lord]

No need to feel bad at all, Brian. It is a service to the community that you're taking the time to enter the decklists and pictures.

[Odd mutation]

Congratulations Rich on a great performance and very interesting list!

I'm intrigued as what the sideboard strategies might be versus the matchups. Very interesting board!

Robrecht

P.S. Proficiat 'Nederboys' met de mooie lijst en de samenwerking met Rich Shay! Tot in Breda... ooit!

[TopSecret]

Rich,

Why do you play Oath?  It's such a mindless easy deck to play for someone of your skill level.

I don't know about mindless. The elephants alone add probably over 100 individual decision trees.

[Yare]

Rich,

Why do you play Oath?  It's such a mindless easy deck to play for someone of your skill level.

I don't know about mindless. The elephants alone add probably over 100 individual decision trees.

Elephants are pretty smart. Based upon its size, Terastodon must be a genius.

[Meddling Mike]

My only hesitation regarding this deck is that it scoops to Ali from Cairo.

Can Rich Shay singlehandedly push up the price of Ali from Cairo?

Coincidence that he purchased the whole inventory of every major magic vendor prior to this event?

I think not...stay tuned for more details.

[Juggernaut GO]

Rich,

Why do you play Oath?  It's such a mindless easy deck to play for someone of your skill level.

The notion that any skill at all is required to succeed at vintage today is more then a little ridiculous, especially in a time where time vault works the way it does.

[Tha Gunslinga]

I thought you quit?

[2nd_lawl]

Rich,

Why do you play Oath?  It's such a mindless easy deck to play for someone of your skill level.

The notion that any skill at all is required to succeed at vintage today is more then a little ridiculous, especially in a time where time vault works the way it does.

Time Vault Exists so there is no skill in vintage, unlike all of those other combo decks from the format's history like flash, those were true skill testers.

[Juggernaut GO]

I thought you quit?

I did, then they reprinted a better juggernaut

[Cyberpunker]

Time Vault Exists so there is no skill in vintage, unlike all of those other combo decks from the format's history like flash, those were true skill testers.

I disagree with your opinion  . Tezzeret decks have a lot of difficult decisions every game. Maybe it is just that players have been playing Mana Drain based decks for so long that those decisions come more naturally than decisions relating to say Stax or TPS.

Players are introduced to Counterspell.dec and Beatdown.dec everytime they start out in Magic. Players are not introduced to Workshop.dec or Dark Ritual.dec or Bazaar.dec though. So players naturally have more experience playing counterspell.dec

But trust me, with enough time invested in it, EVERY DECK can become "easy" and requring "no skill".


BTW @ TheAtogLord:

Why not Hellkite Overlord maindeck instead of the Elephant? Both can kill in 2 turns. You can sideboard in Terastodon vs Stax and Dredge (Or do you want Iona to be included still? I personally think that Iona would be just giving them more turns to get out their zombies and beat you with Ichorid. But it does stop them from Dread Return and Cabal Therapy...too hard to call for me, what do you think?).

Plus Hellkite adds 8 damage 1 turn earlier than Terastodon should he be Oathed up 2nd. (1st guy is DSC/Iona and 2nd guy is Hellkite) vs (1st guy is DSC/Iona and 2nd guy is Terastodon).

I understand that Iona is very bad against Stax, and so maybe a Terastodon on the side. But I do not understand the inclusion of Terastodon over Hellkite in that case...

Vs STAX 2nd Hellkite is game over really quickly. Vs Dredge also. Vs TPS Hellkite gives them 1 less turn to try and storm out a win. You already have a great matchup vs Fish anyway, so whatever creature matters little...I think (any thoughts?)

So that leaves Tezzeret...is Terastodon that much better against Tezzeret?

[2nd_lawl]

Time Vault Exists so there is no skill in vintage, unlike all of those other combo decks from the format's history like flash, those were true skill testers.

I disagree with your opinion  . Tezzeret decks have a lot of difficult decisions every game. Maybe it is just that players have been playing Mana Drain based decks for so long that those decisions come more naturally than decisions relating to say Stax or TPS.

Players are introduced to Counterspell.dec and Beatdown.dec everytime they start out in Magic. Players are not introduced to Workshop.dec or Dark Ritual.dec or Bazaar.dec though. So players naturally have more experience playing counterspell.dec

But trust me, with enough time invested in it, EVERY DECK can become "easy" and requring "no skill".


BTW @ TheAtogLord:

Why not Hellkite Overlord maindeck instead of the Elephant? Both can kill in 2 turns. You can sideboard in Terastodon vs Stax and Dredge (Or do you want Iona to be included still? I personally think that Iona would be just giving them more turns to get out their zombies and beat you with Ichorid. But it does stop them from Dread Return and Cabal Therapy...too hard to call for me, what do you think?).

Plus Hellkite adds 8 damage 1 turn earlier than Terastodon should he be Oathed up 2nd. (1st guy is DSC/Iona and 2nd guy is Hellkite) vs (1st guy is DSC/Iona and 2nd guy is Terastodon).

I understand that Iona is very bad against Stax, and so maybe a Terastodon on the side. But I do not understand the inclusion of Terastodon over Hellkite in that case...

Vs STAX 2nd Hellkite is game over really quickly. Vs Dredge also. Vs TPS Hellkite gives them 1 less turn to try and storm out a win. You already have a great matchup vs Fish anyway, so whatever creature matters little...I think (any thoughts?)

So that leaves Tezzeret...is Terastodon that much better against Tezzeret?

trolled by sarcasm.

[Cyberpunker]

You know...you cannot communicate sarcasm with just words on a message board.

try /sarcasm next time then.

[The Atog Lord]

Nothing else is as flexible as Terastodon. You can put 18 power on your side of the table, such that in two turns you will have attacked for 18 -- just as with a Dragon. But you can also take out an opponent's mana base with Terastodon, something that Dragons don't do. Terastodon is basically immune to STP against Fish, since you will still have a large army on your side if you turn your Null-Rod'd Moxen into Elephants. And he hits opposing Time Vaults and manabases frequently enough.

[Rico Suave]

Why not Hellkite Overlord maindeck instead of the Elephant? Both can kill in 2 turns.

But only the Elephant does something useful the turn it comes into play.

[voltron00x]

Elephants are 3000 and great.

Dragons are 2000 and late.

Go ahead, try and argue that .

[Bill Copes]

Will they print a mouse creature in the next set to purge this pandemonious pachyderm?

[personalbackfire]

Why not Hellkite Overlord maindeck instead of the Elephant? Both can kill in 2 turns.

But only the Elephant does something useful the turn it comes into play.

Ok, im not to sure I understand this statement..

Hellkite swings for 8+ when he comes into play, is that not useful?
Your saying 'only' makes me think that you are implying that the Iona also does not do anything useful when she comes into play, which also doesn't make sense.

Can you go into more about this?

[honestabe]

Why not Hellkite Overlord maindeck instead of the Elephant? Both can kill in 2 turns.

But only the Elephant does something useful the turn it comes into play.

Ok, im not to sure I understand this statement..

Hellkite swings for 8+ when he comes into play, is that not useful?
Your saying 'only' makes me think that you are implying that the Iona also does not do anything useful when she comes into play, which also doesn't make sense.

Can you go into more about this?

99% of the time, it doesn't matter if you spread out the damage over 2 turns.  Terestadon can still kill as quickly as hellkite can, but it immediatly effects the game once it enters play.

Also, it's more flexible and does more than just bash face

[ELD]

Elephants are 3000 and great.

Dragons are 2000 and late.

Go ahead, try and argue that .

I don't buy this argument without a graph to prove it's true.  It's clearly an attempt to skew the data to fit your already formulated hypothesis. 

[The Atog Lord]

Hellkite swings for 8+ when he comes into play, is that not useful?
Your saying 'only' makes me think that you are implying that the Iona also does not do anything useful when she comes into play, which also doesn't make sense.

Attacking for eight is almost always useless. It's only useful if the opponent is at eight or fewer life, or has a planeswalker who needs to be handled.

Iona coming in and halting a whole color is very useful, and immediate.

[Sporkcore]

Elephants are 3000 and great.

Dragons are 2000 and late.

Go ahead, try and argue that .

Elephants are quite Fergalicious.

[Rico Suave]

Why not Hellkite Overlord maindeck instead of the Elephant? Both can kill in 2 turns.

But only the Elephant does something useful the turn it comes into play.

Ok, im not to sure I understand this statement..

Hellkite swings for 8+ when he comes into play, is that not useful?
Your saying 'only' makes me think that you are implying that the Iona also does not do anything useful when she comes into play, which also doesn't make sense.

Can you go into more about this?

Sorry, the statement I was responding to was comparing Overlord and Terastodon.  The "only" was just between those two.  Iona does in fact have quite an impact. 

But yes, the idea is it's better to take the first activation and lock your opponent out of the game immediately than to deal non-lethal damage and pass the turn without disrupting your opponent. 

[Cyberpunker]

So basically it does not matter if Iona hits play and then you Oath up your Terastodon?

You can kill immediately with Hellkite if he is your 2nd creature. Terastodon gives your opponent 1 more turn to win.

EDIT:

Dredge gets 1 more turn to kill
STAX gets 1 more turn
Tezz can topdeck Time Vault or Key or Tutor or Yawg Will
Fish gets 1 more turn to race you...

[Phele]

Congratulation, great result. It is good to see that there is some innovation but I have a couple of notes/questions.

- Why Collossus as a Tinker Target? As great he can be as a quick finisher he seems to have less synergy with Oath as you opponent can block dead its spirit tokens when you attack with him. It might not be that important most of the time, but it is from time to time. Wouldn't be Sphinx a more synergystic choice. It looks like your not betting on winning the game quickly anyway, as Terastodon and Iona are more controlish and can be pretty slow, so Sphinx can help you out when your are low at life. And she flies.

- As nice as Terastodon is and I completely agree that you can suddenly impact the board with it, it also seem to have some disadvantages. Giving yourself more than one elephant token gives the opponent the opportunity to oath themselve. Again: It might not be too important, but it can make the difference when they oath up a Painter or a Welder for example. I know that you can choose who gets how many elephants. But giving your opponent too many can also be a disadvantage. Terastodon doesnt Trample. And if they destroy Oath after you gave your opponent two or three elephants, he will have pretty much time to still win the game blocking your big elephant for a couple of turns.

Just my first impression. I am not sure if you really need Terastodon. I think that your are fine with just Iona and a Tinker target.

[honestabe]

You can blow up your own oath to ensure they don't get to use it

[Phele]

You can blow up your own oath to ensure they don't get to use it

Good point, I oversaw that.

[The Atog Lord]

I think that your are fine with just Iona and a Tinker target.

You need a third monster to prevent decking.

As for DSC vs Sphinx, that's a metagame call. DSC is better against welderless Workshop decks and Tezzeret because he is faster. Sphinx is better against Welder and slightly better against Fish. There's no better or worse between them; just a matter of the metagame you expect.

[Phele]

I think that your are fine with just Iona and a Tinker target.

You need a third monster to prevent decking.

Sorry, I was unclear there. I would play Krosan with two creatures.

[Tha Gunslinga]

You play 3 creatures and no Krosan Rec because having 3 plus tezz allows you to beat Sadistic Sacrament, even pre-board.  DSC is better than any other Tinker target because it kills in two swings, something none of the others do.  I played this deck and won MANY games with Tinker, games where all I had to do was drop a turn 2 or 3 Tinker with one or two counters backup, and my opponent scooped.  If your meta is heavy Welders and Tarmogoyfs, you may need Sphinx, but I would still prefer DSC; it's absolutely amazing.

[sorcutt]

I thought you quit?

I did, then they reprinted a better juggernaut

Does this mean you'll run tournaments again? 

Word on the street is golems shit all over monkeys in cages.