Terastodon Oath

[Tha Gunslinga]

What's your list, what are you boarding out, what are you boarding in?

[PETER FLUGZEUG]

in which situations do you find having to attack into blockers?
iona flies, inkwell has islandwalk, terastodon, well, doesn't but you can still blow up oath so they don't get to oath.
on the mirror match thing:
The difference between oath and confidant is, that oath is a two card combo, whereas confi does something on his own, even though less broken things.

[Tha Gunslinga]

Oath invalidates creatures, though.  If I play an Oath without an Orchard, you CANNOT play your Dark Confidant, unless you want to lose.  You probably can't risk Tinker.   You can't play any creatures if you're playing Fish, except Qasali Pridemage.

[M.Solymossy]

Oath invalidates creatures, though.  If I play an Oath without an Orchard, you CANNOT play your Dark Confidant, unless you want to lose.  You probably can't risk Tinker.   You can't play any creatures if you're playing Fish, except Qasali Pridemage.

[Tha Gunslinga]

I always forget about that one, because it didn't work in the past.  Thanks DCI.  Fortunately no one plays it.

[voltron00x]

I always forget about that one, because it didn't work in the past.  Thanks DCI.  Fortunately no one plays it.

People definitely play it where I am.  Its a terrific SB card in Noble Fish, since you can use it against anything that plays Tendrils as well as Oath decks, although the WW is kind of a pain sometimes.  In fact, if I were playing True Believer I'd probably rock a Savanah just so I wasn't forced into fetching Tundra, Tundra if I didn't have a Noble.

[Tha Gunslinga]

Postboard I usually go for Tinker anyway; it's better vs a deck that has a lot more enchantment hate than StP effects.

[Cyberpunker]

in which situations do you find having to attack into blockers?
iona flies, inkwell has islandwalk, terastodon, well, doesn't but you can still blow up oath so they don't get to oath.
on the mirror match thing:
The difference between oath and confidant is, that oath is a two card combo, whereas confi does something on his own, even though less broken things.

Inkwell doesn't have Islandwalk vs MUD or Dredge and Terastodan doesn't have evasion. Emrakul has flying but annhilator 6 makes them sacrifice all creatures. Iona is the only sure flier and there are times when you cannot get her out because you do not have an orchard or you have drawn her.

@Gunslinger

I wrote down all the s/b strategies in my tournament reports. I am in a hurry and I don't wanna post everything.

[voltron00x]

Oath had a monster weekend on 4/24, if anyone didn't check Morphling.

[Tha Gunslinga]

That's fair.

Sideboard: +3 Massacre +3 Deathmark +1 Hurkyl's Recall +1 Nature's Claim, -4 Mana Drain -1 Gifts Ungiven -1 Merchant's Scroll -2 Spell Pierce.

Decklist:

Win:
Iona
Emrakul
Elephant
Inkwell
Tinker
4 Oath
1 Key
1 Vault

Awesomeness:
Ancestral Recall
Time Walk
Yawgmoth's Will
Demonic Tutor
Vampiric Tutor

Protection:
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Pierce

Plan B Packet:
1 Show and Tell

So So but still necessary:
Merchant's Scroll
Mystical Tutor
Brainstorm
Ponder

The Universal Vintage Blue Deck Bomb:
Gifts Ungiven 

Mana:
4 Polluted Delta
3 Island
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
4 Forbidden Orchard
5 Mox
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Tolarian Academy

Sideboard:

Selkie
3 Massacre
3 Deathmark

Dredge
4 Rav Trap
2 Planar Void

Workshop/Tezzeret/Mirror
2 Nature's Claim
1 Hurkyl's Recall

Any time you're sbing that many cards, you have to ask yourself if you really should be changing that much about the deck.  I personally would want to vary the Massacres a little, maybe into 2 Massacre/1 Perish, just because if you're facing a pair of 5/6 Goyfs, Massacre isn't going to do anything for you.

Vs Selkie, the first things I remove are Top, Tezzeret, Key, Vault, and LoA.  Library is way too slow, and will be Wasted easily.  This isn't a matchup where you're likely to be able to sit back and relax and draw cards off Library.  I would rather not have another source of colorless in the deck.  You're not running Top or Tezzeret, but obviously you still have Key/Vault.  I would cut them.  Neither one does anything by itself, and you're going to be facing down Null Rod, Trygon Predator, Qasali Pridemage, and Nature's Claims, so putting together Key/Vault is going to be very difficult if not impossible.  Drawing Key or Vault is just a wasted draw in this matchup.  I like keeping in most if not all of the Spell Pierces, and all the Drains.  You need Drain in order to slow the game and take control, and it gives you enough mana to be able to play Oath or Tinker with mana floating to avoid Daze.  Drain is a huge threat vs Fish, and if you're running this many basic Islands you shouldn't have much difficulty Draining spells.  Spell Pierce isn't that bad; sure, it can't counter the creatures, but it counters their Forces, Swords to Plowshares, Null Rods, etc.  I would board like so, with your deck:
-1 Key
-1 Vault
-1 LoA
-2 Spell Pierce
-1 Merchant Scroll (so slow)

+2 Massacre
+1 Perish (swap out one Massacre for Perish)
+3 Deathmark


Never cut Gifts Ungiven.  It wins me so many games, and with Drain mana you can make it much easier to play.

[Cyberpunker]

Thanks for the post. It really helps when I have another person chime in on how they think is the best way to go at sideboarding or maindeck or deckbuilding strategy in general. I will keep your viewpoint in mind, hopefully it can help me win the next tournament coming up this week   .

But really you should be careful of Duplicant and Sower of Temptation. You WILL eventually run into the situation I described above and have to gamble that they do not Oath up their death creature. So far I cannot think of a solution other than to just gamble and hope they do not turn the tables on you.

[JACO]

Thanks for the post. It really helps when I have another person chime in on how they think is the best way to go at sideboarding or maindeck or deckbuilding strategy in general. I will keep your viewpoint in mind, hopefully it can help me win the next tournament coming up this week   .

But really you should be careful of Duplicant and Sower of Temptation. You WILL eventually run into the situation I described above and have to gamble that they do not Oath up their death creature. So far I cannot think of a solution other than to just gamble and hope they do not turn the tables on you.

If you think that's a problem then you're probably doing something wrong. You can just blow up your own Oath(s) with Terastodon and they will never get another creature. Also, if you fear them putting in Duplicant or Sower when you Show and Tell you could always Thoughtseize their hand first to clear the way.

[Cyberpunker]

Assuming that you do Oath up Terastodan here is the scenario:

Elephant comes in and blows up 1-3 of their Mana/Permenants. They do not attack becase you did not give them enough creatures to win the combat race. 2nd creature comes in. If you are not able to Oath up Iona at the time (you drew her or she somehow found her way into your graveyard) then you will eventually have to attack into their blockers.

But yeah I thought about this and realized that running Sphinx would help avoid this scenario more often. But then again Sphinx has its own problems in my metagame.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

I'm really going to have to echo jaco at this point. If your own oath is an issue, you've got to be doing something wrong.  Once it tournament play I had to blow up smokestack, crucible and shop to save my board and prevent them from duping my dude, and all I had left was dsc in my library. I had orchard to keep them off my oath but with crypt rolls they were going to win the aggro race. With some tutors, timvault/key, time walk, a few copies of natures claim (to hit my own stuff), and regrowth/y-will shenanigans I really had a lot of outs and won that game. Not to offend you, I have no idea what opponents you were playing or the lists floating around in your meta so things could get bleak, but I think if you’re on top of your game and you’re list is reasonably high powered, this should next to never be a concern.

[Cyberpunker]

I'm really going to have to echo jaco at this point. If your own oath is an issue, you've got to be doing something wrong.  Once it tournament play I had to blow up smokestack, crucible and shop to save my board and prevent them from duping my dude, and all I had left was dsc in my library. I had orchard to keep them off my oath but with crypt rolls they were going to win the aggro race. With some tutors, timvault/key, time walk, a few copies of natures claim (to hit my own stuff), and regrowth/y-will shenanigans I really had a lot of outs and won that game. Not to offend you, I have no idea what opponents you were playing or the lists floating around in your meta so things could get bleak, but I think if you’re on top of your game and you’re list is reasonably high powered, this should next to never be a concern.

I mean its not like I don't try to get out of that situation. I'm saying that there will be times when it is unavoidable. Early Oath vs MUD for example. Orchard gets wasted on their turn but you already blew up their lands with Terastodan the turn before. You Oath up your 2nd creature that isn't Iona. You have no choice but to attack into the blockers. Its not bad because their whole board is totally wiped out. The bad part is that you have to let them Oath. Those situations are rare I know but I have just been trying to point out that they exist and if you play enough games you will run into them.

I'm not offended but please know that I don't misplay into those situations. Its just that those situations sometimes are unavoidable because you cannot control what your opponent decides to do to you on their turn. (in this case, waste your Orchard).

Running Sphinx instead of Inkwell would make those situations less frequent which is good. But running Sphinx opens you up to echoing truth, chain of vapor, swords to plowshares, duplicant and sower (whereas Inkwell would be immune), and any other removal that targets.

[PETER FLUGZEUG]

Let me get this clear:
You're against MUD. You oath up elephant man, wipe their board. This means they have 4+ creatures now. Iona is in hand. They play wasteland.
Why do you have to attack?
you could just take a standstill and proceed with your game. (i.e.. find vault-key / or another orchard to give them tokens in their upkeep). If they're screwed, you've got time. and you have 2 huge walls.
The thing is, your situation might come up but I give you an advice: accept it, it's rare. very.
I must admit that i would rather run sphinx anyways, though, but robot choice is robot choice. 

[bisamratte]

I ran Sphinx on Sunday at Zürich and it won me 2 games pitching into FoW, but I've lost so DSC oathing up Iona being unble to stall.
Sphinx is better anyway I think. Another Oathplayer lost the quaterfinals against Workshops after Turn 1 Oath (getting raced). That's my experiances...

Btw: Terastrodon is awsome

[Cyberpunker]

Let me get this clear:
You're against MUD. You oath up elephant man, wipe their board. This means they have 4+ creatures now. Iona is in hand. They play wasteland.
Why do you have to attack?
you could just take a standstill and proceed with your game. (i.e.. find vault-key / or another orchard to give them tokens in their upkeep). If they're screwed, you've got time. and you have 2 huge walls.
The thing is, your situation might come up but I give you an advice: accept it, it's rare. very.
I must admit that i would rather run sphinx anyways, though, but robot choice is robot choice.  

That is true, although giving your opponent turns can lead to them eventually finding lands and then recovering. Your advantage gained by Terastodan will be smaller then. And they can even hardcasting duplicant or other spells. So that is why I don't really like to give anyone turns.

This isn't my situation only, and yeah I already said I can find no other solution than to go ahead and gamble.


@Gunslinga

I thought about what you said in regards to sideboard strategy against Selkie and this is what I have come up with.

1. I really don't think siding out Library is a good idea because even though it is colorless and too slow, it is still mana. The reason for running 26 mana sources in the first place was to avoid losing to topdeck wastelands and strip mine.

2. Mana Drain for me has always been a liablity versus Selkie. Selkie can drop creatures faster than you can get Mana Drain online. And when you do, their Daze + Spell Pierce will outpower your Mana Drain + Spell Pierce. On the other hand, if Mana Drain were Massacre or Deathmark you can win the tempo war easily.

3. I don't like siding out KeyVault because they are still your win conditions. It is true that Null Rod and Pridemage ruins it. But they have to get them out. If they do not, than you win. Also, by siding out KeyVault, you are reducing your win conditions and that will make you 100% in on your Oath which then makes you more easily disrupted. Finally, by siding out KeyVault you are automatically conceding one major win condition to their hate. And so Selkie will automatically accomplish one of its main goals, to nullify the KeyVault decks. I don't want to concede anything to Selkie and if they want to nullify KeyVault, they will have to fight for it.

4. I like Massacre because they can be cast for free and you can win the counter war as a result. Perish is 3cc and is very hard to cast against a deck that focuses on mana denial.

5. Gifts Ungiven is never castable in the Selkie matchup. For me at least.

So that about sums up my reasoning behind the sideboard plan.

[Cthulhu1975]

Since I am a player who does not play that much, mostly at tournaments (there are three in the coming two weeks), could someone please elaborate on how to play Gifts Ungiven in Terastodon Oath?

Some lists include Regrowth and as I understand it you can then setup the following pile: Regrowth, Yawgmoth's Will, Time Vault, Voltaic Key.
But which are the other really good piles you can setup? For example, if you do not have Regrowth in your list or if one or more of the cards in the example above are not in your library.

[Cyberpunker]

Key, Tinker, Demonic, Yawgmoth's Will

Ancestral, Time Walk, Demonic, Tinker (for brokeness)

(if you have a creature in hand)

Show and Tell, Ancestral Recall, Time Walk, Yawgmoth's Will

Vampiric Tutor, Demonic Tutor, Key, Vault

Force of Will, Mana Drain, Spell Pierce, Tinker/Ancestral/Broken Spell

In short just be creative and if you cannot assemble the KeyVault combo, then just go for the best cards in your deck and get some brokeness. This is how I do it anyway.

[Tha Gunslinga]

So that about sums up my reasoning behind the sideboard plan.

Well, it's an easy matchup for me with my build/sb, and a hard one for you with your build/sb, so draw your own conclusions.

[PETER FLUGZEUG]

That is true, although giving your opponent turns can lead to them eventually finding lands and then recovering. Your advantage gained by Terastodan will be smaller then. And they can even hardcasting duplicant or other spells. So that is why I don't really like to give anyone turns.

This means you prefer letting them oath instead of sitting back with your counters and let them walk into them? I mean, they have to find lands first, while you have mana and counters open.
I'd try to slow the game down, eventually finding vault-key. Unless you have absolutely nothing in your hand. If you have no evading creature whatsoever you are already giving your opponents turns, they can just chumpblock your attackers for at least two turns. And you are giving them the possibility of wrecking you when you finally get rid of their blockers. I really recommend the controlling plan. If you find one of the following cards, you win:
jace (controls the hell out of them, for example controlling their topdecks while ramping it up ftw)
tezz
black tutor
brainstorm (for putting iona back in and then oath it out, having a flier)
gifts
will
...
you get my point? Perhaps we just play it differently, but I'd say you should be able to keep them down, they're just too far behind.

[Cyberpunker]

That is true, although giving your opponent turns can lead to them eventually finding lands and then recovering. Your advantage gained by Terastodan will be smaller then. And they can even hardcasting duplicant or other spells. So that is why I don't really like to give anyone turns.

This means you prefer letting them oath instead of sitting back with your counters and let them walk into them? I mean, they have to find lands first, while you have mana and counters open.
I'd try to slow the game down, eventually finding vault-key. Unless you have absolutely nothing in your hand. If you have no evading creature whatsoever you are already giving your opponents turns, they can just chumpblock your attackers for at least two turns. And you are giving them the possibility of wrecking you when you finally get rid of their blockers. I really recommend the controlling plan. If you find one of the following cards, you win:
jace (controls the hell out of them, for example controlling their topdecks while ramping it up ftw)
tezz
black tutor
brainstorm (for putting iona back in and then oath it out, having a flier)
gifts
will
...
you get my point? Perhaps we just play it differently, but I'd say you should be able to keep them down, they're just too far behind.

Okay, I'll try it your way next time and see what happens. My concern is that my counterspells will be neglected by their threat density. Counterspells are a 1for1 trade and if they find their mana, they can potentially just overwhelm me with threats. That is why I feel I need to attack and gamble that they do not oath up a duplicant. If they Oath up Golem then Metalworker for example, I will win when my Inkwell attacks for 21 total.

@Tha Gunslinga

I guess you are just better at the game.

[sorcutt]

This deck seems to be a monstrosity right now.  What is the one deck that Oath players fear the most?  On paper, it seems like storm combo or ANT would be pretty tough.

[Killane]

This deck seems to be a monstrosity right now.  What is the one deck that Oath players fear the most?  On paper, it seems like storm combo or ANT would be pretty tough.

I'ved a great deal of success vs decks like this wth TPS. Unless they resolve Oath, activate it, and hit the Elephant early enough to cut me off from all mana, there's not a great deal that i have to fear from them (apart from the same irritating combo everyone runs K-V). usually I can go off fast enough to beat them, and Pierce is really not at all hard to play around.

[Cyberpunker]

This deck seems to be a monstrosity right now.  What is the one deck that Oath players fear the most?  On paper, it seems like storm combo or ANT would be pretty tough.

Dredge. It is always the closest matchup and one that I can only win with hate. Unlike Confidants, Oath doesn't help much in this matchup except in conjunction with your hate.

[Fortune]

Hey guys.  What do you think about propaganda as a bullet in the main or in the side to fend off troublesome creatures? 

A new guy in our group runs ichorid and I hate having no chance game 1.

[conboy31]

Pretty much trash for main and could probably find something better for the sb.

Instead of adding propaganda to your mb you could try to cut thirst for knowedge -> for timetwister.  That would give you the chance for hitting vault key nuts on the reload and making them dredge again.

[Fortune]

Well, the slot I'm playing with is the slot that formerly had Twister in it.  I just never seem to cast it (and I draw it often).  I'm just not sure what else would be better.  I considered going up to 4 drains in the maindeck, but haven't tested it yet.

[Tha Gunslinga]

@Tha Gunslinga

I guess you are just better at the game.

Tested like 12 games today Soly playing Oath, me playing Bant Fish.  No SB.  Oath went about 10-2.  It's unreal.