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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: New Deck type, nameless, uses Plat. Angel
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on: September 18, 2007, 09:11:08 pm
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Thanks for the comments. Some thoughts.
Braingeyser does provide an extra card. I liked the luxury of playing it as an instant, but most things can be done at sorcery speed anyway. Thirst for Knowledge is what I meant by compulsive research. Poor recollection apparently.
Lightning Greaves, I should say, is the real house in this deck. First turn greaves, second turn metalworker is as fast as playing a metalworker first turn. Provides protection for the angel and allows darksteel boy to attack the turn he comes into play. Also makes goblin welder pretty useless. And The Abyss likes to eat Goblin Welers, too. Mana Vault, of course, has a place.
Strip Mine works well. Lots of random land cards in my meta like maze of ith, other tolarians, libraries, etc. A nice thing to have, and the mana base is quite solid enough.
I played Isochron in the original decklist, two copies. I found that if I smacked down an angel with greaves, it was pretty much game anyway, and although nice the effect was a bit redundant. But Isochron does work with stuff like mystical, vampiric tutors and ancestral of course. Also, consider that final fortune can be played the turn before dropping the angel. So if you can play Final Fortune with Cunning Wish back up for the angel, then go for it.
I like the idea of a staff. Another artifact would be nice. What to cut?
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Eternal Formats / Creative / New Deck type, nameless, uses Plat. Angel
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on: September 18, 2007, 02:27:02 pm
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So, been tweaking a decklist that I've come to really enjoy. The deck functions around a few basic principles, first that Platinum Angel and Lightning Greaves together are very good. Also, Metalworker is fun when one plays lots of artifacts. Plus, Tinkering for a Darksteel Colossus is fun, and hurts faces.
Here's the decklist, commentary will follow.
1 Darksteel Colossus 4 Metalworker 3 Platinum Angel 3 Lightning Greaves
1 Ancestral Recall 2 Thirst for Knowledge 2 Braingeyser 1 Fact or Fiction 1 Isochron Scepter 1 Memory Jar
2 Cunning Wish 1 Gifts Ungiven 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Imperial Seal 1 Mystical Tutor 1 Merchant Scroll 1 Tinker
1 Mana Drain 1 Yawgmoth's Will 1 Time Walk 3 Final Fortune
1 The Abyss
1 Black Lotus 5 Mox 1 Mox Diamond 1 Grim Monolith 1 Mana Crypt 1 Sol ring 1 Voltaic Key 1 Candelabra of Tawnos 1 Lotus Petal 1 Gilded Lotus 1 Mana Vault
1 Strip Mine 1 Academy Ruins 1 Badlands 2 Underground Sea 2 Volcanic Island 3 Polluted Delta 1 Tolarian Academy
SB: 1 Echoing Truth 1 Misdirection 1 Force of Will 1 Final Fortune 1 Hurkyl's Recall 1 Pyroblast 3 ReB 1 Rack and Ruin 1 Volcanic Geyser 1 Diabolic Edict 1 Cunning Wish 1 Island
All right, so the game plan is relatively simple. Platinum Angel is the primary win condition. With a greaves on she's quite the bitch. Extra turns with Final Fortune and Angel really cut down on the amount of answers an opponent can turn up. Of course, Tinker for Darksteel works too.
Mirari is a bit cute, and counts for an artifact with Metalworker. A Mirari Cunning Wish works well. Also the reason another Cunning Wish is on the SB. Cunning Wish for Cunning Wish and something else, etc. Good synergy with Yawg's Will of course.
The deck generates a ton of mana, and make Stroke viable. Lots of tutors, one of the better cards to search for is Tolarian Academy. Lots of search for the win pieces. Gifts Ungiven has been solid so far. The single mana drain/ cunning wishable force and misdirection are the only pieces of permission. But with a good amount of search and plenty of threats, it's quite easy to get that single counter to force out an angel.
The Abyss is a house, a must counter against most decks in the meta. Useless against dreadnoughts of course, but nice against random Magus of the Moon decks. Works solidly against GaT, etc. Academy Ruins has been quite nice, allows for me to return busted artifacts.
In any case, there really aren't many answers for a Greaved Angel, and this deck pumps them out quite well.
Comments, thoughts? The list might look a bit sloppy, but it's tighter than one might imagine.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / In 4cControl, pitchabilty or immunity to REB?
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on: June 08, 2004, 07:02:06 pm
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This is an excellent question, and to analyze it correctly, one must take a good look at what Keeper's game plan is, and how it's draw spells are integral to the game plan.
4C Control's Draw: 3 Skeletal Scrying 1 Fact or Fiction 1 Ancestral Recall
And, to a lesser extent: 2 Cunning Wish 1 Mystical Tutor 1 Demonic Tutor
When you think about it, Skeletal Scrying really fits into 4C Control's gameplan most effectively. Scrying is an interesting, and powerful, card in 4C Control, because it can be cycled early on, after removal and counter magic has been used to remain in the early game, or it can be used to end the game later on, with a draw of 4/5+.
Like previously mentioned, very few other spells have this flexibility, except for Fact or Fiction, which is restricted of course. Braingeyser is a sorcery, and the UU you'd use could be put to a more effective use, like keeping Mana Drain mana open. Deep Analysis has the same problem, and that is you don't want to play aggressively against most of the field. Tapping out during your main phase cuts down a lot of the power you have with your targeted removal, Mana Drain, and Cunning Wish. Skeletal Scrying can be cast EoT, for a suitable amount of cards. Very few cards have this flexibility.
The fact that it's not Misdirectable or REBable is just an added bonus. Knowing that you can play Skeletal Scrying, and that the opponent, with less than UU open, can't effectively counter is HUGE! This kind of flexibiliy allows you to do so much, that the loss of FOW pitchability shouldn't even be considered.
Here are the spells that can be pitched to FOW, or, that you'd actually consider ditching to FOW:
4 Brainstorm 2 Cunning Wish 1 Fire/Ice Extra Counter Magic (5-6) 1 Mystical Tutor 1 Fact or Fiction
That's 14 cards, not including Ancestral or Time Walk, which is in a 1:4 ratio to the 60 cards in the deck. Of course, one must consider the fact that Brainstorms will often be cast early to develop your game plan, but they're pitchable against Combo.
Also, we must consider the decks that'll side in REB's against us:
Tog FCG Mirror Random decks with red.
Knowing that you can still play ALL of your really bomby spells, IE Yawg's Win, Exalted Angel, and the Scryings give you a TON of advantage against decks that over-board against blue.
So, all in all, I believe the power and flexibility of 4C Control's improved draw engine is without equal, at least for similar, yet un-updated, builds.
4C Control is definitely a strong deck right now, all because of Exalted Angel and Skeletal Scrying synergy, with allows the deck to have many different game plans.
-Jakedasnake
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [Discussion] Addressing Playskill in Vintage
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on: May 28, 2004, 01:21:46 am
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Having played a bunch of both formats, including many against Paradigm, I can honestly say that the two formats require equal amounts of skill, but in different areas.
For one thing, Type 1 has that broken factor, and a lot of playskill stems from the ability to adapt to broken plays. It definitely takes a lot of skill to win after a resolved Yawg's Will, for example, especially when that can almost always mean game over.
Another example, when playing Keeper, would be saving your counters for the spells that'd have the biggest effect on your position. It's hard to tell, and you need to know ratios and play style for this to work effectively. It's impossible to just blindly make the correct decision when deciding what to Mana Drain, as you need to know the optimal play a whole turn ahead, and excluding what you'd draw.
Type 2 players don't have to do this, but that's not to say they don't require playskill. Type 2 players play against better opponents, as many of the 'good' players play Type 2 for the larger payout. Besides the games against the better, on average, opponents, one'd have to know the ins and outs of each matchup. In Type 2, more than any other format, lots of little things can happen. The card pool is smaller, but that means that more cards are playable, so one has to be ready for surprises. For example, the affinity builds very quite a bit. In fact, in Regionals, when Jonah and I both Top 8'd, I'd fought through 3 mirrors, each build strikingly different. The build I played was 4 color, but I'd played 2 color with strong defense against arti hate, 3 color, and a build that sort of combined both. However, it's important to know the ins and outs of Type 2 especially, because so many cards are viable.
So, all in all, I believe that both formats require a lot of skill, but in different areas.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / (Single Card Discussion) Key to GAT in the 5th Dawn? Maybe.
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on: May 15, 2004, 06:15:36 pm
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I don't see GAT using Whispers as long as Scrying is legal. Not only is this not as great a first turn play as it could be, but Scrying has tons more synergy with Mana Drain not only in the fact that you can keep Mana Drain mana open, but also in the fact you can Drain into Scrying.
Scrying also has more potential. You don't just limit yourself to 2 cards - you literally draw a new hand with it.
I think you're really missing the point here. GAT wants to play aggro, with the option of playing Dryad-Control against FCG and other straight aggro decks, plus combo. Most of the time, having Mana Drain mana open is really irrelevant, as you're not going to want to spend a couple of turns leaving UU open so you can drain into a spell. GAT wants to play threats FAST, and use lots of card draw to out pace it's opponents. Mana Drain is used mainly for the mid game, when you've possibly depleted your card draw and already have a threat on the board. GAT doesn't want to play the control mode unless it has to, the deck isn't built around slow-playing. -Jake
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / (Single Card Discussion) Key to GAT in the 5th Dawn? Maybe.
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on: May 12, 2004, 11:45:25 pm
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This card definitely has a LOT of potential. The AK engine is VERY strong, but the fact is you're going to be playing the small AK's against Tog, and without Intuition, AK is sub-par.
This, however, has a lot of potential. The sorcery issue isn't really a problem, as GAT has an aggressive strategy, using it's counters to protect it's spells. Most of the time, keeping UU open for Mana Drain is irrelevant, as you'd want to use that UU to force a Dryad into play against Control, etc. Running 3-4 of these could definitely add a large boost, that loss of two life really doesn't mean anything.
Strong card, lots of potential.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / SotF for Artifacts
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on: May 12, 2004, 11:41:07 pm
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This card just doesn't seem like it would improve anything. Honestly, discarding an artifact to search for a Mox? Why? A tutor or additional draw would fill these four slots much more effectively.
It's cute, but it's no SotF.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [Discussion] How necassary is red in GAT?
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on: April 10, 2004, 11:22:37 pm
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Well, the Red Splash definitely is a metagame call. It hurts the matchups you mentioned, but it really improves the Hulk, Keeper, and Slaver matchups. In a more 'ideal' metagame, I'd play with the Red splash.
Thirst for Knowledge has been nothing but excellent for me. I don't really ever not like drawing it, and at the very least it pumps 'Tog, but it also helps you filter through your deck EoT. Sure, it's slow, but with Mana Crypt it's really no big deal, and GaT plays enough acceleration to get it out when you need it.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [Discussion] How necassary is red in GAT?
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on: April 10, 2004, 07:39:09 pm
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I've really liked Red in GaT for quite a while. Sure, it obviously weakens some of your stronger matchups, but it does a LOT to improve your Slaver Matchup, which is just brutal. Having red in GaT weakens your strong matchups so marginally that it really isn't worth considering.
Plus, you're still able to run 4 Seas and 4 Trops, which is almost always plenty with 4 fetchlands.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [Discussion] Arguing against LOA inside Workshop Slavery
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on: April 03, 2004, 06:44:58 pm
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Wow, the quality in this thread is awesome. I'm just going to back up Caelestis here, because I believe he has hit every point right on the head. In focusing on playing it like traditional workshop - perms ahoy, you force the deck to take shape in its strategy early on, when you are not sure whether it might be the best way to counter them. This isn't like Keeper, where your overall strategy is going to be control. Granted, years back you can drop a suicide Morphling and just plain win from there, but that is as far as Keeper had been to be able to play different roles. I think you're missing a key point about Mindslaver in general, and that is you don't NEED to 'slave them until the actual control of their turn will really affect them negatively. Workshop Slaver has the luxury of busting out an early slavery against 'Tog, for example, but why slaver early against Big O? There is simply no need. Instead, drawing a couple of extra cards while they build up there side of the board, making them weaker to a Slaver, means you have a better chance of actually causing some real damage once you've got a slaver lock. All the role that Ancient Tomb fufills is to decrease your buffer, -giving you less time to go off- in exchange of being able to drop something one turn earlier, something that moxens can do also when you draw into them with LoA. But why do you need Ancient Tomb? Look at the acceleration 'Slaver runs: 5 Moxen, Sol Ring, Black Lotus, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, 4 Workshop, 3 Gilded Lotus, 1 Ancient Tomb. That's 17 cards that do more than a land drop would. 17. Chances are, and I hate to use percentages, that you'll draw 2 of these every time, and often 3. Adding an additional Ancient Tomb doesn't really affect this percentage. However, the versatility that LoA adds is invaluable.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [discussion] standard/extended "type 1 decks"
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on: April 03, 2004, 06:31:32 pm
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I don't want Type 1 to go back to the Keeper days. All I was saying was that having a Type 1 format that's basically Type 2 just doesn't appeal to me. Hopefully, stuff like this won't happen too much, because why play Type 1 with Type 2 cards for small prizes instead of playing with Type 2 cards in Type 2 for large prizes?
Just my $.02
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [Deck Discussion] Keeper in the Current Meta, Evolution
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on: April 03, 2004, 01:43:57 pm
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It seems like you took all the good things Keeper had and made them worse. But seriously, this is a perfect example of a decklist that popped out of your head, with you thinking you'd made some strong cards choices...bladdabladda. Anyway, right now I really can't see people playing Keeper without Chains of Mephistopheles. The card just wrecks house against 'Tog, and really improves the Control Slaver matchup, while only marginally weakening the random aggro matchup. However, it really sucks against Workshop, but Chains is a meta card, and you wouldn't play it in a Workshop environment anyway.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [discussion] standard/extended "type 1 decks"
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on: April 03, 2004, 01:37:31 pm
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I don't know. This seems like the first time in a while, since GroATog, that a deck has been basically transferred to Type 1, and, well, done pretty good. The only problem I see is that this happens because the card base in Type 2 is so strong, that it can basically transfer right over to Type 1, the 'Broken Format'.
What it means is that Wizards is progressively producing stronger and stronger cards, and this could lead into Type 1 and Extended being Pseudo-Type 2 formats. I really hope this doesn't happen.
However, some skeletons should be transferred, because they're viable and all, but I don't think I'd like to see it too often.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [article] MIT DEM RAVAGER GEBEATDOWNT!
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on: April 02, 2004, 12:53:23 am
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In an ideal metagame, I'd probably consider cutting Ornithopter, as you won't need to fly over any creatures. However, with Ravager, you can build up a large flying creature to fly over aggro d00ds. Nice article, as always. Weird, isn't it, that a Type 2 deck just added a couple broken cards and became a viable deck? Well, I think it's strange... 
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [decklist and questions???] Eureka/Show and tell
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on: April 01, 2004, 10:30:55 pm
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I'm not going to comment on this deck, as I have absolutely NO experience with it, but I will correct one thing: Hypnox in fact DOES NOT remove the opponent's hand from the game. The playing from hand clause means you have to pay the MANA cost, which is why you can't Sneak Attack one into play. You're putting it from your hand into play, not playing it from your hand.
Understand?
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [Discussion] Arguing against LOA inside Workshop Slavery
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on: April 01, 2004, 10:05:28 pm
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I have to agree with Caelestis on this one. LoA definitely has a place in this build, especially when you consider what the deck ultimately wants to do; slave the opponent multiple times. Like Toad mentioned, with an opening hand of LoA, you can just ignore every threat that's hitting you and draw cards, developing your mana base, maybe playing some disruption, etc, until you can 'just win' with the Slaver lock. LoA basically gives you another gameplan that leads to victory, and it certainly goes a long way in the non Tog control matchup, making non explosive hands very appealing. Workshop Slaver needs to constantly lay permanents that can be used in a proactive way, and, even with the burst that Brainstorm gives you, one often notices that the deck just runs out of steam. When this happens, using a draw7 with a LoA in play is basically game over; you've got everything you need. I wouldn't cut it for the small boost that Ancient Tomb gives in its place, especially when you already run 4 Workshops, 3 Gilded Lotus, 9 Moxen, etc. You just don't NEED the second Ancient Tomb as much as you need LoA.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [Card Discussion} Darkstell Brute....Merit in t1?
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on: March 30, 2004, 11:01:37 pm
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When you've got the whole standstill thing under wraps, you're already using mana to activate your man lands, that, on top of the fact that you can't tap your man lands makes sacrificing 3 mana a turn to repeatedly activate this guy is asking alot. Faerie Conclave needs three mana to attack for two (well, two to activate, then itself), so this is a pretty weak argument. However, it can be countered (obviously), and it can't be played through a Standstill to apply pressure like a Man-Land can. But who knows, 1-2 could be interesting, considering that Wasteland doesn't hit it, and is basically only vulnerable to Swords.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Shuffling In T1...
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on: March 28, 2004, 02:33:47 pm
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Unless you know what lands you're stacking, that can be pretty dangerous. Imagine playing Hulk, and you stack your lands, but all you got are Tropical and Volcanic, when, if you had randomized, you most likely would have one of those Deltas or Seas.
I guess I'm wondering if, when stacking, the opponent knows what lands he's putting where.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Beta Black Lotus
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on: March 28, 2004, 12:36:58 am
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On average, a card can handle a bend test 9 times before taking damage. However, this is straight from a pack.
If the Lotus is beat, as I assume it is, and, if it has been played or shuffled extensively, the card WILL crease.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Beta Black Lotus
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on: March 27, 2004, 04:44:08 pm
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You did a bend test on a Beta Lotus? WOW. You've got some serious balls.
How thin? As far as I know, all magic cards have been printed with the same thickness. If it's fake, the guy probably got a beta land and ripped the front off, and replaced it with a paper piece more thin than half a magic card.
That's all I can think of.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Shuffling In T1...
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on: March 26, 2004, 06:48:53 pm
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I have to agree with kl0wn, except for the girlzzed veteran thing. The only thing I do is a double cut, really friendly like. I always trust my opponent, because if they think winning because of cheating is a win...then they're really only hurting themselves. The only reason I cut is so nasty thoughts don't pop into my head. Nice hands are un-avoidable, but at least this way cheating is nearly ruled out. Type 1 is just so much more like a family than any other format, and I truly believe that shuffling is an afront to this community.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [Discussion]Fact or Fiction in general
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on: March 26, 2004, 03:40:40 pm
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Fact or Fiction is still a crazy good card...in some decks. For example, it fits Keeper's gameplan perfectly, in that you'll be able to cast it, if you have it, to seal the win. If, piloting Keeper, you haven't been able to build up to four mana sources with some sort of protection, you've lost anyway. However, in Tog, it's just not quite as good. 'Tog already has plenty of draw to throw around, and although Fact or Fiction really pumps the d00d up, it just doesn't really fit around the game-plan unless they're able to drain into it. Just my $.02 
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Metagame Keeper: Chains Keeper, my build.
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on: March 24, 2004, 11:53:40 pm
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I did say why. I've never really been able to abuse it when I don't have the ability to draw cards, and the strain on the mana base is pretty intense.
However, the City of Brass is a new addition, so I might consider cutting an Underground Sea for a Library, but I'll just have to see.
Exalted Angel is pretty awesome, but as of yet I've been completely satisfied with running 1. I'll test a second, though.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Metagame Keeper: Chains Keeper, my build.
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on: March 24, 2004, 05:35:03 pm
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I've been thinking about BeB's for a while, as they are pretty effective.
I really like running 1 Exalted Angel, I don't really want it super early, so it's kind of like running another bomb to tutor up through Cunning Wish.
Gorilla Shaman is weak in some matchups that I play, but I completely agree that 2 is pretty effective. That's why I have one in the board.
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