Thirst is restricted! E-tutor, Crop Rotation, and Entomb are unrestricted!

Does this mean a White Vault-Key deck will emerge with E-tutor and Argivian Find? Will Crucible get out of hand with 8 ways to get a Strip Mine into play or the graveyard? Will the loss of Thirst kill Tezzeret, or will Enlightened Tutor force it to adopt white as well? Will Smennen's Parfait deck finally become good?

The whole reason they are adding the "line up blockers" rule (which is stupid) is so that damage prevention will work, since combat damage no longer uses the stack. I don't think it's worth it (eliminating the ability to spread damage around and pyroclasm after, etc.) Why not change the nature of damage prevention rather than change the nature of BLOCKING?

Ex: I use Orim's ability to prevent the next 3 damage to any target creature or player. For the rest of the turn, whenever a creature or player would be dealt damage, I get prompted "Do you wish to prevent 3 damage to this target?" If it has shroud or Pro: White, I don't get this prompt.

Easy, intuitive, and preserves how blocking USED to work.

I still think that this article was pointless.

Also, comparing to Shahrazad to Time Vault is apples to oranges. Time Vault had its functionality ruined by errata, whereas Shahrazad's functionality is problematic no matter how you look at it.

You talk about space concerns not being an issue because dredge and desire both take up a lot of extra space as well. Not a fair argument. Imagine a hypiothetical tournament where every deck (or a large percentage of them) was playing Shahrazad. This wouldn't happen, as the card sucks, but it theoretically poses a very real space problem. Saying "Desire and Dredge take up a lot of room, Shahrazad just takes up more" does not remove the fact that it takes up a lot of room. An arbitrary line has to be drawn somewhere, and Wizards has chosen to draw it at Shahrazad. It doesn't "threaten the integrity of the format" or any such nonsense as there is no possible slippery slope to go down. It's the ONLY subgame card that exists. It's not like we're worried about Erayo getting banned because you need to flip it, and chaos orb set a precedent for rotating cards...

Realistically, I'll get over one pointless article. I'm not upset so much about the content as I am about the opportunity cost. Rather than read an article that won't change anything, about a card I (and most other people) don't care about, I could have been reading something interesting. Is anyone geninely upset that Shahrazad is banned, or is this just an abstarct tirade about "the nature of Vintage?"

Isn't Cursecatcher a lot better than Sage?

I Therapied naming Basking Rootwalla once. Worst ever. I also Imp Sealed for Orchard instead of Oath when I had an orchard on the table already.

Don't you still need so somehow conjure an extra UU though? You'll have G floating still from your Lotus, but you still need the extra U for both Research and Cunning Wish...

It depends on what you're concerned with. If you're terrified of Colossus (you shouldn't be) then obviously Sower/Control Magic is better, but the matchups where you really need creature advantage (other fish decks) make it very difficult to get to 4 mana, and even then a lot of lists are running Daze.

I'd stick with Threads for now.

Eric: My board was incredibly sketchy. All of my T1 cards were stolen a few months ago, so the deck was assembled from scratch by borrwing cards from the community. I had full proxies and thus my board options were limited. The stuff I remember for sure was

3 Planar Void (Better against Chain, easier to Vamp or Demonic for than Leyline)
3 Yixlid Jailer
3-4 Seal of Primoridum (I can't remember)
3 Threads of Disloyalty

Seal of Primordium is better than Krosan Grip in my metagame due to all of the Landstill. If they drop a Standstill, Grip still gives them 3 cards. Seal is also faster against Oath (where speed is important if they have the T1 Oath) and workshop decks with Sphere/Thorn.

I also modified your original list a bit, cutting the MD Stifles. In those slots I ran something redundant (maybe another Duress) and Demonic Consultation which was amazing all day except when it backfired once, killing me. I won that match anyway.

The deck is so redundant, that Consultation is basically an Instant-speed Demonic for anything but Ancestral.

The deck is incredibly consistant and strong. I mulliganed once all day, which was, unfortunately, in my semifinals match against U/r Faerie fish which simply out tempoed me. I had more dead cards than he did in game 1 (Duress, Rod, Negate) and game 2 I couldn't draw Goys or Threads fast enough.

For the record (I know it's been an ongoing issue), there was no a single point where the Negate - Mana Leak issue popped up. (I ran 3 Negate and I never wanted to counter a creature where I couldn't, nor did I counter a spell where my opponenet had 3 extra mana.)

Ethersworn Canonist 1W
Artifact Creature - Human Cleric
Each player who has played a nonartifact spell this turn can't play additional nonartifact spells.
2/2

Link: http://www.wizards.com/magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/stf/4

Amazing against storm, and playable turn 1 off a mox. This card seems patently ridiculous. Discuss...

My first thought was playing this in a UW Fish shell and just loading up on more countermagic than normal. If your opponent plays their 1 non-artifact spell for the turn and you counter it, it's gone for good. They can't Force back and save it. I also considered Erayo, but because they can play an artifact to get countered by Erayo's ability, it's effect is not as powerful as Arcane Lab, and doesn't produce a hard lock. Still, this effect is very strong for only 2 mana (with a body) and it may even see play in a White Stax deck (perhaps with Suppression Field?)

Zur's Wierding
Solitary Confinement
Shadow of Doubt
Erayo?

In Turbo MUD it can fetch either part of Worker-->Staff. The only problem is that if you have the Staff and need the Worker, you'll need 3 lands in play, and 6 (non-shop) mana. Urborg, perhaps?

Another direction would be to run 4 Workers (obviously), some number of BtQ, and then singletons. One Staff, one Powder Keg, maybe some bullets like Tormod's Crypt, etc.

I'll be there with two friends. Hopefully everyone brings their A-Game.

4 Jailers MD!? That seems extremely superfluous with Leyline MD as well.

Edit: And considering he runs no Lotus, Ruby or Jet, this is probably in a very underdeveloped no-proxy metagame where Ichorid is one of the few "budget" options.

Dave: I don't consider 3/8 to be "dominance," especially if they are different archetypes. Sure, the SCG with 7 Gush decks was ridiculous, but statistical anomolies happen.

The criteria I use (and I may be in the minority) is if I am seriously afraid of facing Gush decks at tournaments. I've placed well at the last two T1 events I've played in (1st and 3rd) playing non-Gush decks (Landstill and Oath, respectively), and I 2-0ed GAT both times I played it. Gush is very strong, but like many people are saying, it is beatable. When Affinity was in T2, I could have been running hate.dec and still gotten owned by turn 3. This is very rare for GAT to accomplish. In any given metagame there is going to be a best deck, and that deck is going to place multiple people in top 8s from time to time. It's just an inevitability in magic.

Edit: I guess what I'm getting at is that when I sit down against a Gush deck, I don't think "shit, I better have luck on my side," I prepare myself for an interesting and (usually) skill testing match. MUCH more than if I were against, say, Ichorid.

Of course not! It's just lame when you pick up a deck with a great GAT, Stax, and Flash matchup, and then get paired against Oath, Landstill, and Goblins. This isn't from personal experiance, as I've recently been having a lot of success at the local level, but I've seen it happen time and time again to friends playing strong metagame decks.

Add to the fact that sideboards are only really 10-11 cards (as you MUST run Ichorid hate even though it's metagame presence is low) and you have a difficult nut to crack. Fortunately, most Vintage players seem to like a challenge 

On the Dave and ELD debate: Dave, when you quote prior SCGs and Waterburys where Gush dominated, you are ignoring the widespread adoption of Lorwyn, which has done a LOT to help format diversity. Of course, this fact also counters ELDs "it's been the golden age since Future Sight" point as well, but you both know what I mean. I think the current format (meaning post-Lorwyn) is fantastic, but also very frustrating due to it's diversity. I'vefound lately that Vintage has become more matchup dependant than it has been in a long time. Gone are the days where you can just pick up Gifts or Slaver and have a reasonable chance against everything. I think Gush-based decks are the best example of this at the moment, due to their consistency and raw power, which is why many people are playing them, but they are not currently over represented in Top 8s, so I see no problem.

It seems like Magus is very critical to your game plan, so why are you only running 3?

Also, I think that Tinker-Platinum Angel should be in the maindeck. Probably in place of one of the Meloku and something else.

I'm going to go ahead and share some tech:

If you run Jotun Grunt, run Demonic Consultation. It is completely friggin broken. It is incredibly versatile, cheap, and powerful. I have Consulted for Stifle, FoW, Daze, Tundra, Meddling Mage, Confidant and other cards. It makes your entire deck more consistant, and there is also the stellar play of Consulting for a card you don't play (I suggest Tarpan) when you have a Jotun Grunt in play and Time Walk in your graveyard. Run this card!

Landstill is 100% tournament viable in today's meta, and is most likely a bad matchup for your deck, but as no one plays it, I wouldn't worry too much about it. You're already deciding to lose to Ichorid in favor of strengthening more prevalent matchups, and I think Landstill is a fair deck to "just lose too" as well.

(And with that said, who knows? Maybe your build is GG against Landstill. I know I've never tested it!)

Envelop? Really?

Envelop was great when there was a ton of Long around, as it countered Grim Tutor for 1 mana, but in today's meta I would imagine Spell Snare to be a better choice. What sorceries are you hellbent on stopping?

Lava Dart is awesome against Flash if you can relaibly use the flashback, as it takes 2 counters to stop, and removes their haste, which gives you another turn to rummage up 2 blockers.

Here's a brief report.

First, my list:

4 Volcanic Island
4  Wasteland
4  Mishra’s Factory
3  Faerie Conclave
1  Flooded Strand
3  Polluted Delta
2  Island
2  Steam Vents
1  Strip Mine
1  Library of Alexandria

4  Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4  Stifle
3  Misdirection
4  Standstill
3  Fire // Ice
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Lava Dart
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
3 Null Rod
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Crucible of Worlds

Sideboard:
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Rack and Ruin
1 Energy Flux
3 Threads of Disloyalty
2 Flametounge Kavu
2 Pyroclasm
2 Spell Snare

This is basically Rich's (Shockwave) list from Gen Con, minus one Fire/Ice and one Null Rod for one Lava Dart and one REB. Lava Dart is amazing against Flash, and I may go for a 2/2 split between it and F/I in the future. It's one mana cheaper, and requires two counters to stop. If you kill the Heart sliver, you can generally untap and have 2 blockers. Crucible sucked all day and I would probably cut it for another permission/bounce spell.

Round 1: Andrey with Bomberman.

Game 1: Null Rod destroys him. I remember he got a turn 1 lotus this game, and I was worried he'd combo me out, but luckily he didn't have the Salvagers in his opening 7.
I don't know what I sided in. Most likely the Blasts and Kavus.
Game 2: Magus of the Moon! Urgh! I can't bounce it in time and I get beaten down.
Game 3: Null Rod to the rescue, again. I draw my first Standstill of the match in this game, and also counter an Ancestral he spent 2 turns on (with Merchant Scroll) for mad tempo.

Round 2: Chris with Stax. (I may have this and round 3 mixed up.)

Game 1: He drops 3 Spheres of Resistance, and can't cast any of his own good spells. Man lands for the win.
Side in Flux, Rack and Ruin, and Spell Snare.
Game 2: I lose to a huge play mistake, where I leave up U1 instead of UU for a mana drain after a loooong game with me at 3 life. He topdecks the artifact he needs for his Welder, and welds in Trike to kill me.
Game 3: We are super short on time, but he plays quickly, and I manage to pull out the win after Forcing a Timewalk that would steal one of my turns.

Round 3: Erik with Flash
He keeps two slow hands and I beat him relatively easily. This is a good matchup. He gets close in game 1 with hardcast slivers but I have F/I and Lava Dart to keep him down.

Rounds 4 and 5: Draw. We play for fun (Landstill vs. GAT) and I win in 3, though we were both playing pretty slopily. These were fun games, and the matchup is very interesting/dynamic.

Top 8

Quarterfinals: Arend Kraehling with some crazy Slaver list.

I get turn 1 Standstill both games, but he is incredibly patient and breaks them at the perfect time. Null Rod is key both games. In both games, he drops Magus of the Moon when he is at very very low life, and stabilizes for a long time, beating me down slowly. Both games I rip a bounce spell and win. This is probably an unfavorable matchup, but he didn't really draw any counters once he had the board locked up.

Semifinals: Erik with Flash (again.)
Game 1, I get the board locked down with 3 or 4 blockers, a handfull of cards, 2 Wastes and a Null Rod, but he refuses to concede. I slowly win.
Game 2: I have too many countes/damage dealing spells and win a long game.

Finals: James with Oath (ICBM style?)
I don't remember these games very well (John was taking notes, so maybe he'll psot a detailed analysis) but James mulls to 5 both games.
In game 2, he sided out Akroma and Razia, and kept only Platz. He gets Oath to activate, and I think I'm done, as I can't race a big angel. When he drops Platz with only 2 or 3 cards left in his deck (before Blessing activates), I breathe a sigh of relief, as I doubt he has another creature in there. Platz is too slow of a clock, and I eventually draw into a bounce spell and take it away. It was definitely a mistake to side out the other creatures.

Props: John for being the best TO ever.

Chris for playing at a reasonable pace in game 3, even though he easily could have gotten the draw if he had slow played a bit. It's great to see people not being assholes/cheaters in situations like this.

Arend for playing perfectly and giving me some intense games.

Rich for designing an amazing deck. The list I came up with was much different and a lot worse, so I'm glad I decided to use his instead.

Everyone at the tournament! I had a great time chatting, playing fun games, etc etc.

Slops: My friend for ditching out on me at the last minute even though I made GAT for him to play.

Magus of the Moon

I disagree completely. When I look at Flash and Ichorid, I see tournament success as one of the least important factors. Lets say I spend 35 bucks and an afternoon to go play Magic. I get paired against Flash and Ichorid respectively, and I get wrecked by ridiculous nut draws where I have no potential to interact, and skill is not a factor. I am now out of contention.

It doesn't matter to me whether or not those decks draw like crap for the rest of the day and go 2-3, what matters to me is that inevitably these "high-variance" decks draw completely ridiculous hands and ruin what Magic is supposed to be about. Yes, every deck has this potential (like Long, Gifts, etc.) but I feel like Flash pushes it beyond some imaginary line of acceptability.

I think that tournament success is the wrong benchmark to be judging these decks on (even though Flash has enjoyed plenty of it.)

I find it difficult to imagine many scenarios when casting Daze into a fetchland is a good idea....

Here's a mini report from me (Owen) as well. (I may have the rounds/games mxied up, and I'm sorry for forgetting people's names!)

The deck: A lot of people have been criticising the list, and I admit that there are some notable exclusions. This deck is surprisingly good. It is similar to SS, but has a ton more creatures so it doesn't lose to other Fish decks.) Meddling Mage is friggin insane. I will try to explain some of the biggest choices:

Lack of Brainstorm: This is the biggest one. When talking to Mike after losing, I mentioned that I had no Brainstorms, and he seemed to sort of just dismiss my performance or the deck in general after that. I did not miss Brainstorm once all day. Every turn you want to be spending all of your mana laying a threat. Turn 1 you hopefully drop a Confidant, Meddling Mage, or Children of Korlis (which I'll get to in a second) and turn 2 you want to supplement that, perhaps with a Cutpurse. Brainstorm does not fit into this strategy, and is weak in Fish in general. You end up swapping random creatures for other random creatures and it all seems like a waste of time/mana.

Lack of Null Rod: I wanted to play with 3 MD Tormod's Crypts, because I was expecting a TON of Ichorid, and it's good against Gifts and Flash as well, as well as being free so you can continue to lay threats. I was very impressed all day and didn't miss Null Rod at all. This deck is more like SS than traditional U/W Fish.

Children of Korlis: My hugest disappointment of the day. They were in there to stop Ichoird (they remove Bridge from Below) and act as a big roadblock against Tendrils Combo. I didn't play against either all tournament, and they should have been in the SB, as they are terrible against DDay, Flash, Slaver, other aggro decks, etc. A bad metagame call.

The manabase: It had both too many fetches and one too many land in general. I'd probably cut one fetch from the manabase in the future, as I was constantly getting flooded, and Daze and Stifle both help to encourage a slightly lower land count, albeit in different ways. Cutting the off-color mox could also be tested.

The SB: The SB was amazing all day. Yixlid Jailer is great against Ichorid, and Kataki is great against Stax, and they both come in against Fish because they are bodies that can hold Jitte. I was trying a strategy where I didn't run StP against other Fish decks, so that I could name that with my Meddling Mages and then have diversified threats. This backfired against Landstill somewhat. Engineered Explosives was there against decks was expecting to have a lot of EtW, as it mops up tokens and Moxes, neither of which Gifts is happy to see occur.

All in all I loved the deck, I feel like it has game versus all of the major archetypes (especially decks like Gifts, Slaver, Ichorid and Long). With that said it needs several changes made to it before I would play it again (which I probably won't.) The changes I would make to the list is:
MD: -3 Children, -1 Mana Source, + some combination of Jotun Grunt, Brainstorm, and Icatian Javelineers (good against Ichorid for the same reason Children is, because it can kill itself to off Bridges, but it's also good against opposing Welders/Confidants)
SB: -2 Chalice +2 Pithing Needle, -something +Children of Korlis

The report: Round 1: Arend Kraehling with Slaver.

G1: I win the roll and go first. I establish some ealry control and kill some lands, but he Tinkers out Platinum Angel and I can't find DT or E-Truth in time and lose.
G2: I forget how I SBed, but I brought in the E Truth and 1 Jitte, as well as Kataki. I get some early beats, ruin his manabase, and win through insane card advantage off Confidant and Cutpurse.
G3: See game 2.
1-0

Round 2: Rich Mattiuzzio (sp?) with U/B Confidant Control.
I don't remember the details of this match, except that Game 1 I was wrecked by Cunning Wish for Darkblast, Game 2 I pull out a win, and game 3 is a draw, though Rich would have won if he had 1 more turn. I don't consider this a loss for the deck though, as I was playing for the draw, which I was 99% sure I could get, rather than the win, which was more up-in-the-air. The game ended with me at 2 life and Rich at 1.
1-0-1

Round 3 (may be mixing this up with round 5): Andrew with Ritual Gifts.
Both games I aggresively attack his manabase and he simply can't recover. In game 1 two Chilldren go all the way with infi backup, and game 2 I destroy him with a Meddling Mage after a Duress.
2-0-1

Round 4: Paul with U/W/B fish.
I get destroyed in game 1, and bring in 4 Jailer, 2 Kataki, 3 Jitte, E Truth and both Disenchants. I take out Duress, FoW (terrible in the Fish mirror) and Children.
G2: I get an early creature down with Jitte, and then frown when he drops Null Rod. We both draw blank for a few turns (4-5) and then I draw mana while he doesn't. This gam was pretty stupid overall.
G3: He mulls into oblivion. Sorry Paul! You're a great guy and need to give your play skill/deck a bit more credit. Don't beat yourself up.
3-0-1

Round 5: I forgot your name! Sorry! With Slaver.
This is very similar to my match with Arend. I get wrecked by Tinker game 1, and then wreck him games 2 and 3. Kataki played a huge roll in one of the games by shutting off two of his Moxes. In game 3 I win by naming Pyroclasm with Meddling Mage which was the only card he could have topdecked to win.
4-0-1

Round 6: I draw into top 8.

The top 8 wanted to do an 8 way split, and I was the only one who wanted to play. Here's how I saw it: If I wanted to make a hundred bucks after an 8 hour day, I would have gone to work. I wanted to win a friggin Lotus! Sadly I am paired against Mike Antonarakis and get destroyed by his Landstill list. I mull into oblivion in game 2, but I don't think it mattered. His deck was pretty much an unbeatable matchup, and is one of the reasons I want to throw a few Pithing Needles into the board. I thought he was playing Gifts, as that's what I'd seen him playing at every other T1 event, and Gifts is a great matchup. Sadly, it wasn't meant to be.

All in all I had a terrific time, and Untouchables is a fantastic venue and John is the best TO ever. I strongly endorse any of their events.

Props: Everyone I played against. Seriously,  I had some very intense and enjoyable games against great opponents.
John for being an awesome TO.

Slops: I was watching a game one of my friends was playing against Ichorid. The player attacked with a few Bridge Tokens, and my friend double blocked one with Piledriver and Lacky and then put them both in the graveyard. They have a combined toughness of 3. Another friend noticed this relatively immediately, but when he stood up, the Ichorid player snapped "don't say anything." I didn't notice until later, and a judge was called. Unfortunately, the game had already concluded (literally 3 seconds prior) and the judge said that he could not do anything and could not prove intent even though the Ichorid player was CLEARLY allowing an illegal gamestate to occur. This is blatant cheating, and pissed me off quite a bit.

Red was actually my first thought for exactly that reason. Magus of the Moon fits PERFECTLY into the deck, as it costs 2R and is therefore excellent to accelerate out with Ancient Tomb, and then "fixes" the Tomb afterwards, so you don't have to take further damage. He would have to be played after any Glowriders and Mindcensors in most cases though. The problem with red is the complete and utter lack of a draw engine. Black seems strong in that Confidant is insane, but I'm not sold on Yixlid Jailer yet. It hoses Ichorid and Recoup, and I don't know if that's worth a slot (and another creature that dies to Dart/D-Blast). I would probably rather use Withered Wretch, but his double black cost will likely be too much of a problem.

The main reason I would want to run blue over red or black would be Daze. The card has been ridiculous in many fish-like decks I have seen, although these have usually had black in them for Duress, so I'm not sure if it would continue to be strong in a mostly white deck.

Edit to expand a little: Though Magus of the Moon seems insane, basic Island is most likely going to be the deck's biggest problem...So what about Choke? Green also gives us Keen Sense as a draw engine, and ESGs as additional and unstoppable acceleration (Guiding out an instant-speed Mindcensor wiill be hot in a red or green build.) I think the problem with this deck is that base white is simply not good enough by itself (or is it?) and every color has good things to offer:

Black: Confidant, Duress, Consultation, Jailer
Red: Magus (which has built in Massacre protection, as most decks don't run basic Swamp), SSG, Shattering Spree, great SB cards against other fish decks
Blue: Ancestral, Walk, Daze, Ninja, Standstill
Green: Choke, ESG, Keen Sense

Alternatively, a White Stax type list has already been posted, and perhaps a mono-white deck could be built with 4 Glowriders and 4 SoRs. Along with Wastes and/or Rods, this could be a crippling strategy, although probably a little too slow for the meta, and horrible against Ichorid.

Another important question is: Null Rod or no? It's awesome with Ancient Tomb (first turn rod ftw!) but with cards like Mindcensor, Magus, or even Confidant, you want to run a lot of Moxen.

I'm definitely interested, and haven't had time to throw a list together or test due to exams. I've only thought about the build from a purely thematic standpoint, but it seems very strong. Years ago (before I bought drains...) I played straight WW and I actually had a very good Slaver matchup despite playing an undoubtedly sub-par list. I'm excited with what can be done with all of the enw cards since then. I am quite certain that Children of Korlis will prove to be amazing given what Future Sight is offering, as they give you game against Ichorid and super-fast storm combo (which will probably struggle getting to double digit storm.)

Confidant is both your draw engine and half of your win conditions. This seems extremely fragile.

Daze, however, looks insanely good in this deck. I have a ton of respect for this card, and turn 1 USea, duress, holding daze seems pretty broken.

I've been thinking that as well, although perhaps instead of running vial, you could run a nearly mono white fish deck with Ancient Tomb for Mindcensor and Glowrider, and then white lands for True Believer, Children of Korlis (insane against Bridge from Below!), etc. Blue could be splashed for walk, ancestral, daze, Ninja, Meddling Mage, whatever. The mana would be a nightmare, especially if you wanted to run Wastes, but the power level and disruptive potential of fish's creature base is on the rise.

Steve: thanks for addressing my post, but I feel your argument is still flawed.


How does the number of standard players have anything to do with the affordability of a deck as it relates format popularity? You say T1 would be more popular if the cheapest deck was the best, and yet in standard, the format's popularity decreased dramatically when the cheapest deck was the best (Affinity.)


Also, examining the parts of your post I bolded, I find that we are in agreement. I don't think the sole goal of Vintage should be to make the player base as large as possible, but I don't think anyone does. That statement is far too absolute. The SOLE goal? Really? To the exclusion of all others? I don't think anyone is arguing that, and this is a bit of a straw man. I don't think that you can deny that increasing the player base is in fact one of our goals, along with others like having a fun, "balanced" (whatever that means in T1) and skill-rewarding environment.